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youser
Good Evening all,

Just received this in the post and was wondering if there were any grounds with which I could appeal this. It's an obvious fault of mine as the 'no right turn' sign is straight in front of me but for some reason I didn't notice it. The way the road is laid out there, it didn't seem that I would be of any danger by performing a right turn and that's probably the reason I took the turn.

As always, any advice will be very much appreciated.

Thank you.


Incandescent
You've blanked out too much

Re-post with just PCN Number and car/address details blanked out. The PCN text is wonderful in showing how absolutely useless our lords and masters are at producing legislation, (who was it in 2003 ? answers on a postcard, please ). It says 28 days after PCN date you're liable for the £130, but still have two days left to appeal it as appealing is based on date of service and its a postal PCN !!

youser
youser
anyone see anything wrong with this PCN?
Mad Mick V
Looking on GSV ---I think they have put the sign in the wrong spot---it should be closer to the junction.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.526706,-0...bYQgcFw!2e0

Traffic Signs Manual Chpt 3 (pages 16/17/18) section 4.5 looks relevant:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...-chapter-03.pdf

I am not a signs expert but I believe the blue sign (see figure 4-3) should have been situated where the prohibition sign is.

Maybe an expert will confirm--or otherwise.

Mick
youser
Thank you for your reply.

Was just wondering, does there have to be an arrow pointing left on the road just before the give way to accompany the 'no right' sign?
Mad Mick V
AFAIK its not mandatory but its absence certainly adds to your grounds that the signage is not fit for purpose and liable to confuse.

Mick
youser
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 18:50) *
Looking on GSV ---I think they have put the sign in the wrong spot---it should be closer to the junction.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.526706,-0...bYQgcFw!2e0

Traffic Signs Manual Chpt 3 (pages 16/17/18) section 4.5 looks relevant:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...-chapter-03.pdf

I am not a signs expert but I believe the blue sign (see figure 4-3) should have been situated where the prohibition sign is.

Maybe an expert will confirm--or otherwise.

Mick


Just had a look at the links you have provided. What I understood from this 'Where the ahead manoeuvre is prohibited and traffic can either turn left only or right only (see paras 4.8 and 4.10), the sign should be sited immediately before the junction on the left hand side (see figure 4-7) and may be duplicated on the right hand side of a one-way road or on a central refuge in a two-way road.'

And this

'4.18 A prohibited turn sign to diagram 612 or 613
is always sited immediately before the junction on the left hand side. '

Is that there should be a 'no right turn' sign at the corner of the pavement just before the give way.

Could someone please confirm?

The manual you have linked, is it the latest manual?

Thanks again


youser
If I appeal, get rejected, appeal to PATAS, get rejected, am I still able to pay the lower £65 fine?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (youser @ Thu, 11 Jun 2015 - 11:29) *
If I appeal, get rejected, appeal to PATAS, get rejected, am I still able to pay the lower £65 fine?


No it would be the £130
John U.K.
QUOTE (youser @ Thu, 11 Jun 2015 - 11:29) *
If I appeal, get rejected, appeal to PATAS, get rejected, am I still able to pay the lower £65 fine?


The discount is offered if received by the Council within 14 days of the date of the letter (3rd.June).

If you make reps within that period most Councils, if they reject, will extend the discount for a further 14 days.

If you appeal to PaTAS and appeal allowed - pay nothing.
If you appeal to PaTAS and appeal refused - pay £130.
Hippocrates
QUOTE (youser @ Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 18:03) *
anyone see anything wrong with this PCN?

Show all of it please.
youser
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Mon, 15 Jun 2015 - 15:57) *
QUOTE (youser @ Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 18:03) *
anyone see anything wrong with this PCN?

Show all of it please.



Hi, what info are you after?

I changed the upload to show everything other than the PCN number, vehicle reg and my address, are you still seeing the older upload?
youser
My appeal got rejected today.

"I have considered your letter very carefully. However I am still satisfied that your parking ticket was given correctly and within the law. Having investigated the case, I can confirm that the sign post meets statutory requirements. Please be advised that there was a signpost on the left hand side advising motorists not to turn right."

I'm think that it's not worth taking this one any further. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.
PASTMYBEST
Don't really know where you are up to is this an appeal(challenge) to the council or an appeal to PATAS.

If to the council then please post both your challenge and the rejection letter
youser








I challenged the council. I don't have a copy of the challenge as I did it through the councils website. It was on the basis that the signs were inadequate. I stated that the road signs manual says '4.18 A prohibited turn sign to diagram 612 or 613
is always sited immediately before the junction on the left hand side.'
PASTMYBEST
Well the discount is gone so an appeal to PATAS is a no brainer.

The letter starts off stating that your vehicle was seen contravening parking regulations.These regs make the enforcement of parking contraventions via cctv illegal.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/10...gulation/2/made

This can be shrugged off as a typo. but i would be using it to stress the cavalier way they approched the statutory obligation to consider properly your challenge.

Then you have para 4.5 of tsm chapter 3 re the placing of the signs.
In the photos in your last post are two vehicles a car and a van the car could have reversed into the side street and would not see the sign, the van could make a 3 point turn and again not see the sign. thus highlighting the inadequacy of the signs

TSM 3 States sign 609 50m before junction and 612 AT the junction The sign over the road is placed in a position where it is too late to act on in it
youser
Thanks for your reply.

The letter says I have another 14 days from the date of the letter (18/06/2015) to pay the discounted fee
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (youser @ Sat, 20 Jun 2015 - 16:58) *
Thanks for your reply.

The letter says I have another 14 days from the date of the letter (18/06/2015) to pay the discounted fee


Fair enough, missed that so you have to decide fight or pay, that's for you alone we can only advise
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