I have received a parking ticket from Redbrige Council as one of the back wheels of my car was half on the pavement, where I had not parked right up to the window on my own front garden. The other wheel was on my propety and there was about 4 feet on non-obstructed wide pavement

I have made an informal challenge which has been rejected. At the time of the rejection I asked if I could appeal straight away as I was going to be away for an extended period of time. They said I had to wait until the formal letter come and would not give me a date for when it would arrive ... by the time I got home of course it was out of time and they have now moved on to the court proceedings for non-payment

I thought if I could successfully challenge the parking ticket then the rest would not apply

The road has recently introduced parking restrictions.

Any ideas on how to challenge this?

I am an unemployed pensioner and cannot really afford this fine

Thanks Jane

No mail redirection or anything ? The Notice to Owner has to be issued a minimum of 28 days from the PCN date, and then there is another 28 days to pay or appeal after which they can issue a Charge Certificate. After this the debt can be registered at the TEC and they issue an Order for Recovery. At this point a Witness Statement can be made, and there is, (I think), 14 days to do this. So where are we in the process ? Post the Notice to Owner suitably redacted. If you are still able to make a witness statement, you can legitimately say you did not receive it. No reason is needed, but you can say this with a clear conscience as due to your absence you did not receive it until you returned to your normal abode thus were unable to submit an appeal to it, (or, indeed, to pay it), within the allowed time.

Not sure anything can be done with this unless you havent received the Notice to Owner. Any other flaw in the paperwork or process can only be challenged at adjudication.

Your post is too vague to advise on anything else and athough you could post more details like the contravention I don't think it would help you.

If you havent received the Notice to Owner then you can get the PCN reverted to Notice to Owner stage meaning you can go to the adjudicator. You have to wait for the Order for Recovery to do this. This still means you have to find fault with the paperwork or process to pay nothing but in this case even if you lose you pay the full penalty not the Charge Certificate.

This sounds like pavement parking. Not easy to get off of in London even if you did get it reverted.

Read this and in particular Witness Statement. This is the process.

http://www.patas.gov.uk/tmaadjudicators/tm...orcement.htm#cc

I'm a bit rusty but others should confirm.

This may be of no use for this PCN but

For your information. Redbridge paperwork is faulty. Notice to Owner must be sent first class on the date of the Notice. If its not postmarked the same date then its invalid. Redbridge do use postmarked envelopes as opposed to most councils who use pre paid and they dont always postmark on the date of the notice.

Keep envelopes and staple to the paperwork.

Thank you for that ...
Someone else - who directed me to this site - said I should use de minimis which apparently is Latin for of minimum importance or trifling. I think he was referring to the fact that there was just one wheel over the boundary of my front garden on to the pavement... but I am not sure how to phrase it.

I didn't know about the envelope and I am afraid that has already gone to recycling


Jane

De minimis is no good for TEC Northampton County Court. You have to get it reverted to PCN or Notice to Owner stage to use this.

You really need to post a timeline and what Incandescent has said is your best option if you are within the time limit.

I am unclear on what you have received.
The Charge Certificate seems certain given what you have said but not sure if the Notice to Owner arrived.
If you did not find it when you returned, you can truthfully sign the witness statement (which will come with the next notice, an Order for Recovery) saying that you did not receive and send that to TEC (address etc will all be on the form)
On receipt, TEC will automatically cancel the CC, OFR and NTO. The PCN remains and the council can send a new NTO.
Which we can then debate on the actual contravention.

But at the moment the contravention or any defence is irrelevant, the process has take over and if the prescribed notices have been sent without response, it will grind on until paid, no defence at this stage except if a notice, such as Notice to Owner, is missing.

OP, set out the notices you have received, and give them their correct descriptions which are in bold letters on their face, and give their dates of issue.

As I understand it, you were served with a PCN, probably for parking with one or more wheels on the footway etc. From your description this could be valid.

You must give us the dates you were away and post your correspondence with the authority.

The procedure allows an owner to makes reps against a Notice to Owner, but if these are not made then the owner potentially forfeits their right to challenge the penalty (by taking the matter to an adjudicator) and must pay the penalty or surcharged penalty, failure to do which would render them liable to their property being seized by bailiffs.

Hi thanks for the help. I am sorry the information provided was insufficent, I didn't want to bore you with all the drawn out details as outlined below. However if they help here they are

I got a parking ticket on the car on the 6th January.

I emailed a challenge on the 17th January. Redbridge Council replied on the 10th March refusing the challenge. They said in their email that I could
' appeal further to the Councils Parking Appeals section. To do this you must
wait for a Notice to Owner to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle at the full charge of £110.00. Once this has been received you will be required to follow the instructions given to make a formal representation.'

I emailed back on the 15th March asking when I would get the letter and if I could have the same amount of time to reply as they had taken as I was going to be away.

They respond on the 16th March with exactly the same statement as above and with no indication of when the Notice to owner would be sent.

I replied the next day asking again when I would get the notice

On the 18th March I was told

'Please note further a Notice to owner is sent 28 days after the date of the rejection letter.'

I presume the email I received on the 15th March counts as the rejection letter.

When I got back home there was an order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge, which said that 'I must either pay the total amount shown £117 by the 19/06 or file a statement. This letter was not dated so I don't know when it was sent. There is also a Form TE9 Witness Statement unpaid penalty charge.

Thanks for the help Jane

If the Order for Recovery is only notice you found and you have to 19th June to act then you are in time and can satisfy the conditions.
The witness statement has a ground that you did not receive the Notice to Owner.
Tick it, fill in the rest of the WS, send it to TEC, phone TEC and confirm receipt.
I'd suggest sending by email (scan and attach the completed form) but check with TEC for correct email address.

C'mon OP.
I went away on ......

I returned on .......

The following documents were/were not (as the case may be) served at my address:
NTO; Charge Certficate; Order for Recovery.

Their dates of issue were.........

No narrative, just plain facts.

We''ve got time to see all these ducks and put them into line.

May I re-iterate the statement...
If a Notice to Owner was not found within the pile of mail when you returned home, you can truthfully fill in the WS and get things reset to an earlier stage where we can possibly fight it.
If one was, the best option is to pay the amount on the Order for Recovery.

We cannot condone lying.
I do not ask the OP to tell us, on a public forum if the NTO was there or not.

Thank you very much for all your help.

I followed your advice and completed a witness statement detailing all the forms I have received.

I have now had two replies back

When I first returned home and found the court summons etc. I wrote to the council explaining why I had not replied earlier, appealing against the ticket and enclosed a cheque for £55 (this was all before I got your helpful advice.) They have now written back demanding another £55 as I had not replied within the 28 days, but telling me I can appeal. This is dated 23/6. and is entitled notice to owner.

The second letter I got is from is from the county court saying that I had filed a witness statemtn and that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked.

Do
I pay the extra £55
Do I appeal (again... and what do I say???)
Do I ask for the £55 I have already paid be returned

HELP!!!!!

Thanks a lot,

Jane
PS I am sorry I have replied earlier but life has a way of getting in the middle of plans.

Now we do need copies of what you have. And solid dates.

DAte of letter from TEC and what did it say.
Copy of the NTO
Original PCN.

By paying the discount prior to sending the witness statement you may have spoilt chances of mounting a decent defence but post up a copy of what was sent by you and the reply.

We need to see all to know what we have to work with.
We've saved you £65, hopefully we can save the rest.

Why oh why do you continue to not give us dates of letters.

The 'second letter' from the 'county court'... dated ...* ****?

Following our advice you submitted a witness statement - presumably on the grounds that you did not receive a NTO.

Please confirm

You now have a reply from TEC which does not say that the order for recovery is revoked, does it? It says that the OfR is revoked and the charge certificate and NTO are directed to be cancelled and that the authority may serve a new NTO.

Please confirm. Better still, post the letter here.

So, we have TEC's decision that the authority may serve a new NTO and a NTO dated 23 June. But we don't know the date of TEC's letter, so we're half-blind.

But we can deduce that TEC's letter, which was copied to the authority, pre-dates the NTO sufficiently such that the NTO dated 23 June is the new NTO. This is the only logical explanation because the amount due under the OfR was £172 (£110 penalty surcharged by a further 50% to £165 added to which was £7 registration fee for the debt).

Please confirm the date of TEC's letter.

If the situation is as above then you have not paid the penalty, which would have closed the case, you've only paid £55 which is insufficient to cover the outstanding penalty. IMO, you should now make representations against the NTO, to do which you must post the PCN, your initial challenge and their response, the NTO and any photos on the authority's website. You have plenty of time in hand, you have until 22 July, but we won't leave matters that long. In your reps you should also demand that your payment be refunded as it was paid in error. (NB. your payment is not the discount because the NTO didn't offer you the discount, it was only a sum which happened to be equal in value to the discount. The authority will probably re-offer the discount and so if after all these shenanigans your reps are rejected and they re-offer the discount, you would be where you are now)
I notice that you haven't posted any docs yet - do you know how and have you read our FAQs?

I am sorry I don't know how to attach the originals. I tried to photograph them but the writing was not clear so I have copied the notice/letters out below. I hope that allows you to offer me some advice about how I should proceed.

It seems to me from the court letter that the council should refund the £55 I paid if it is to start again... the council however are demanding another £55 to cover the late charge for not paying the fine within 28 days????

Thanks again for your help

Jane


From Redbridge Council I have received
NOTICE TO OWNER, DATED 23/06/2015

It states

On 06/01/15 a Penalty charge Notice was served by Civil Enforcement Officer 662 with respect to the above vehicle on the grounds of the following alleged parking contraventions

Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway in Gordon Road on 06/01/15 at 12:32

DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE

This notice to owner is being served as the PCN has not been paid. You are legally responsible for complying with this Notice to Owner. Do not pass this notice to the person who was in control of the vehicle at the time the alleged contravention occurred.
The full penalty charge is £110 £55 has been paid.

PAYMENT OF £55 IS NOW DUE

This penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this Notice to Owner is served
You may make representations to the authority against this Notice (refer to section 'How to Make a Representation'). The authority may disregard any represenations recieved outside the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this Notice to Owner is served.
If you do not pay the penalty charge in full, or if you have not made representations to the authority, within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this Notice to Owner is served, the authority may increase the penalty charge by 50% to (this is left blank) and may take steps to enforece payment of the increased charge.


The rest of the notice is about payment options and what they will do if representation is made.


LETTER FROM THE COUNTY COURT

It is addressed to London Borough of Redbridge and includes the PCN and car registration.

It then says
The respondent filed a statutory declaration/witness statement on 17 Jun 15. It is ordered that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked. It is further ordered that the charge certificate and the notice to owner/enforecement notice be cancelled.

Important note to respondent

This order does NOT cancel the original Penalty Charge Notice. You should contact the Local Authority/charging authority as they may well take further action on it. The authority should inform you as soon as possible if it intends to do so.

Gives my name and address

Dated 17th June 2015 (so 6 days before the issue of the Notice to Owner by the council)

This order is issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre at.... address/telephone number

TE5A Noticiation that a statutory declaration/witness statement has been filed - unpaid penalty charge. (CPR Part 75)

17-June-2015 /23/qdg48s/ 0017

Seems like it is a new NTO in response to TEC cancellation. Quick of the mark but timing allows.

We do need to see the NTO Jane.

Please try photographing again. Most point and shoot cameras and mobile phones have decent autofocus as long as you do not get too close and are in good light.
Host the pictures on a free host service, photobucket or tinypics for instance and link them back here.
We need the originals to check wording against regulations.

We could also do with seeing council CEo photos. Most councils post them on their parking website. You should be able to find them by putting in the PCN and Registration numbers

I'm satisfied that we're back on track procedurally and so we can start now with considering your response to the NTO to do which we absolutely must see their photos - they will be on their website.

No pun intended in the context of cameras and photos, but we must focus on you getting to grips with posting docs etc. DD's given an overview and you can find more in our FAQs.

Thank you for your patience. I will try and photograph the letters again tomorrow, although I did copy the letters word for word.

In the meantime I have found the photos of my car on Redbridge council site and have tried several times to attached these for you to look at but I keep getting the error message - Error Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file.

I can either send them to you by email or if you are willing you can look at them on the redbridge site - http://www.redbridge.gov.uk/Parking/Pay?type=yellow (PCN): AF54144403 Vehicle Registration: BT06MHL


The back wheel on the driver side of the car is on the pavement, no other wheels are and there is about 3 foot between my car and the curb on to the road so I don't see that it would obstruct anyone ... even if they had a buggy or were in a wheelchair.

Anyway thanks again
Jane

I would remove your Reg no and PCN

To save the pictures if using a pc:-

1. Click on a picture to expand it
2. Right click over the expanded picture and select copy
3. Right click over your desktop and select paste

Then follow the instructions in the "READ THIS FIRST - Frequently Asked Questions" to post the pictures

IMO, the photos show a clear contravention.

OP, you challenged the PCN and received a rejection and then wanted to appeal straight away because you were going away.

But on what grounds did you challenge and what argument did you want to put forward in your appeal?

This opportunity is now back on the agenda but with the full penalty at risk. If £55 is a lot, £130 is a lot more.

As we haven't seen the PCN, your challenge or their response we've only got the photos which are clear.

Keep trying to master uploading docs because it seems that we're left only with procedural issues.

If you view google maps you'll find your car in exactly the same place committing exactly the same contravention which might suggest that parking wholly off the road is impossible. Why not park on the road outside your house, if you're the occupier then it's yours to park on. Also, the fact that Google shows you in contravention might suggest that whether you're issued with a PCN or not is a lottery. Give us more background info because surely this cannot be the first time this issue has cropped up.

With HCA, the photos show a clear contravention, no chance of de minimis, lucky not to have an FPN for unnecessary obstruction I think, I wouldn't park there again, the fact you only just got a PCN suggests its not a commonly patrolled street and maybe a neighbour has kicked off, in which case it will probably happen again, and again.....

Hi I have been living here for almost 20 years and have always parked exactly the same way, with no problem. A year ago parking restrictions were introduced into the road (I suppose before that TW had no reason to come along here) and it was after that I got the parking ticket.

I was thinking that if everything has gone back to the beginning of the process - how can they ask me to pay another £55 outstanding fee. Surely if it has gone back to the beginning they should refund that £55 and start again??

I made an appeal ... I had not seen the photos and honestly believed the wheeel was not on the pavement, which I know now one wheel was....

I Sent this on 17th Jan. as I said I had not seen the photo

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 6th January my vehicle, which was parked exactly as it has been
for the last 20 years on my drive, was issued with a Penalty Charge
Notice.
This was because 'one or more wheels was on the footpath' offence
code
62 1.

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is that my
car was not parked on the footway. It was parked on the brick line,
which denotes the edge of my property. Only one wheel - back drivers
side - was parked on this line, the other wheel was on my drive.
Private property I am sure you will agree with me remains beyond the
reach of public on-street parking regulations. I know traffic wardens
take photoes of cars they ticket so I am sure you can check this
yourself.

When the restrictions were first introduced in Gordon Road and a
friend further down the road got a ticket for exactly the same reason
I checked the requirements with a traffic warden who told me the way
my car was parked was fine. My car has always been parked in exactly
the same way for the last 20 years including the period from last
year when the parking restrictions were introduced in Gordon Road.
There are traffic wardens in the road nearly every day trying to
catch the parents dropping off children at the local primary school
and there has never been an issue with my car before.

If my car was in anyway illegal the traffic warden could easily have
knocked on my door and asked me to move it ... it was parked on my
drive. In addition my car was in no way blocking the passage of
pedestrains.

I think the issue of this ticket has more to do with the fact that I
saw the traffic wardern further down the road and warned someone to
move their car before going in my house.

I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge
Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours sincerely,

Ms J Brown

12 Gordon Road
Wanstead E11 2RB

On 10.03.2015 10:59, Highways Parking Management wrote:

THIS WAS THE REPLY I GOT

Dear Sir/Madam

Penalty Charge Notice (PCN): AF54144403 Vehicle Registration: BT06MHL

I refer to your letter concerning the above Penalty Charge Notice.
Your notice indicates that you were parked with one or more wheels on
the footway, therefore your Penalty Charge Notice was issued correctly
and must remain valid.

For your information, the “Highway Code” states “You MUST NOT park
partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so
elsewhere unless signs permit it. Parking on the pavement can
obstruct and seriously inconvenience pedestrians, people in
wheelchairs, people with visual impairments and people with prams or
pushchairs”.

On this basis the Penalty Charge must be paid, if paid within fourteen
days from the date on this letter the reduced rate of £55.00 will be
accepted. After this point the full charge of £110.00 will become due.

If you do not wish to accept this decision you are able to appeal
further to the Councils Parking Appeals section. To do this you must
wait for a Notice to Owner to be sent to the registered keeper of the
vehicle at the full charge of £110.00. Once this has been received you
will be required to follow the instructions given to make a formal
representation.

Should your representation be rejected you will be sent a form to
appeal to the Independent Adjudicator, whose decision is final.

Yours sincerely



Parking Management


Then I wrote again saying that the wheel may have been on the pavement but
1. I had always parked the car that way... custom and practice
2. That it was not a danger as there was plenty of room for anyone to get passed without any need to go into the road, as was shown by their own photoes, even somone in a wheelchair (their exxample see above)
3. Therefore they were pushing the law to the extreme
4. If it was a question of danger then surely the TW had a duty of care to knock on my door and ask me to do something about it.

So from reading all the posts everyone has kindly sent I assume none of this was any good.... but what about having to start the process again ... at least then I won't have to pay more than the £55

Thanks Jane

If you paid within the 14 day limit then PCN is paid in full.
Otherwise full amount is due.

We really need to see some paperwork here. And images seem to be missing.
It's either pay or challenge and we have little to challenge with at moment

If I am understanding this correctly, the OP is back at the NTO stage, which means the full penalty (£110?) Is in play. Jane, you sent a cheque for £55 But did they cash it?

EDIT: is legitimate expectation possible here?

OP, it is very common practice, almost universal, for authorities to re-offer the discount even after rejecting reps.

So, get them in on time and they'll probably do it in your case.

But I would recommend that you state your case simply. IMO, your points are:

You have occupied your property for ** years and have used your front garden area for parking for *** without any concern being raised by the authority. You have been aware that parking on the footway is prohibited in London since a neighbour of yours was given a PCN for this offence earlier in the year at which time you checked with a CEO as regards your situation and were told that ... (Whatever they told you). You were therefore surprised to be given a PCN which indicates a change in approach on the part of the authority.

The photos show a minor transgression.

As you were parked as far into your property as possible, if the authority are going to take an absolutely strict line in this matter with any part of a wheel on the footway being a contravention, then you would have to park in the road (you've still not told us what parking restrictions have been introduced).
Don't overcomplicate matters with the £55, just let them either cancel (which would be discretionary) or re-offer the discount which, as you've paid £55, would probably lead to them closing the matter from their end - I won't go into the avenues which this might open should they do this because we'd be getting ahead of ourselves.

One step at a time and submit reps.

You don't have to state the statutory grounds, you could simply say that you wish to make representations because ... you have occupied your property ...... and just go straight in.