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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
MartinN
Went out this morning to find my car missing. Called the council and found it had been towed as it was parked half on the footpath, which I thought was weird as I'd parked it last week completely within the bay!

Last Thursday it was parked at the end of a marked bay, I checked on the car last night at approx 2300 and it was still where I left it. The picture the council have shows the car halfway down the bay up against another car and half on the kerb. What I think happened is that last night the car was pushed down the bay by another car, there is damage to the rear bumper that would be consistent with pushing (some cracking where it has been pushed and then returned to shape, and the bumper is coming away slightly at the edges from the body of the car).

What does anyone think about whether I can legally be held responsible for how the car was found if it wasn't where I had parked it?
PASTMYBEST
QUOTE (MartinN @ Tue, 7 Apr 2015 - 21:50) *
Went out this morning to find my car missing. Called the council and found it had been towed as it was parked half on the footpath, which I thought was weird as I'd parked it last week completely within the bay!

Last Thursday it was parked at the end of a marked bay, I checked on the car last night at approx 2300 and it was still where I left it. The picture the council have shows the car halfway down the bay up against another car and half on the kerb. What I think happened is that last night the car was pushed down the bay by another car, there is damage to the rear bumper that would be consistent with pushing (some cracking where it has been pushed and then returned to shape, and the bumper is coming away slightly at the edges from the body of the car).

What does anyone think about whether I can legally be held responsible for how the car was found if it wasn't where I had parked it?


Post up ticket photos and GSV Redact personal info only. Have you reported this to the police, do you have a crime number
i need help
report it to police online.

Get crime ref no.

council should accept this and refund.
DancingDad
A standard ground to challenge on any PCN is that it was left there without the owner's consent.
Being pushed out of the place you left it seems to fit that ground quite well.
The problem will be offering any proof so photos of damage as a minimum.
Police crime number if possible and insurance report if not claim.

Council is likely to reject even with solid proof but all you can do at the moment is tell the story and add what you can.
Once they reject you can appeal to adjudicators and at a personal hearing, have a chance of persuading an adjudicator that you are being truthful and winning the case.

But please post up whatever paperwork you have so we can see if anything else to work with.
hcandersen
Was the vehicle towed to a pound or simply repositioned on the road?

Assuming it was removed to a pound, then you've collected it and were given docs. These were the PCN and notices relating to making representations. We need to see them, and leave in all dates/times. Pl confirm that you recovered the car on 7 April.

Do you have any independent corroboration of the vehicle's position? On what date?

You have 28 days beginning on the date you were advised of your right to make representations to the authority in which to make reps.

As you've paid the penalty and recovery charge, there's no cost to you to go to appeal.

MartinN
I haven't reported it to the police or my insurance company. The damage isn't bad enough for me to want to burden the police, and I doubt the repairs would cost more than my excess.
DancingDad
At the end of the day, you need proof that you did not park it in a fashion that allowed it to be removed.
As you talk of Footpath, we assume that it is a London Council else a PCN is unlikely to be served.
If it is London, likely that the PCN is justified.
Which leaves you with little.
Going to police to report a crime at least shows that you have taken some action

But we need paperwork
StuartBu
QUOTE (MartinN @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 11:11) *
I haven't reported it to the police or my insurance company. The damage isn't bad enough for me to want to burden the police, and I doubt the repairs would cost more than my excess.


But get a free estimate of the damage/repair costs to back up your defence .
hcandersen
And answer the questions please.

Where's the PCN with all details, and the date you recovered the vehicle and the appeals notices?

SatNavSam
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (MartinN @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 11:11) *
I haven't reported it to the police or my insurance company. The damage isn't bad enough for me to want to burden the police, and I doubt the repairs would cost more than my excess.


But get a free estimate of the damage/repair costs to back up your defence .


Exactly. You may be surprised / dismayed at how much damage can be concealed by modern plastic bumpers.
frazzeld
QUOTE (SatNavSam @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 19:07) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (MartinN @ Wed, 8 Apr 2015 - 11:11) *
I haven't reported it to the police or my insurance company. The damage isn't bad enough for me to want to burden the police, and I doubt the repairs would cost more than my excess.


But get a free estimate of the damage/repair costs to back up your defence .


Exactly. You may be surprised / dismayed at how much damage can be concealed by modern plastic bumpers.


This has just brought back memories of of my car and hidden damage...... 2013 and my parked (stationary) car was shunted from the rear into another vehicle in front that was also parked, lucky for me is that i had my car covered by CCTV....watching the CCTV back shows my car shunted into the car in front and my car compresses and then springs back into shape, the car in front has rear end all dented the vehicle that shunted mine also has the bumper all bashed in.... £1700 of repairs behind the plastic bumpers on my car (which only showed scratches and one very small crack)
MartinN
I've attached the PCN now.

I'll also contact my insurance company to arrange a check for any unseen damage.
hcandersen
Forget about possible hidden damage to plastic bumpers, this is a distraction. We need the rear of the PCN and the documents which you were given at the pound.

And pl answer the question: do you have any corroboration that your car was parked correctly in the bay at any time?
MartinN
Back of the PCN attached, I don't have the document from the pound with me at the moment.

I have no photographic evidence of my car parked as I left it.
hcandersen
Not necessarily a photo, after all who takes pics of their car? Did anyone see it in the parking place, if so, it's evidence.
MartinN
I guess I could ask around. I saw it in the bay at 11pm the night before (as did my girlfriend) but I doubt they'll accept our statement.

I've finally got round to scanning the pound forms.
Incandescent
OK, you have no photos, after all why should you have taken any when you parked. An adjudicator will understand this, so you really need one or two witness statements to support your appeal, GF being one and maybe a neighbour.

If you have witnesses, you have enough to appeal this one, and it is a no-brainer, as you have already paid all there is to pay, and could get it all back. However, first off you have to appeal to the council, so make sure you submit WSs with your appeal, as if they reject your appeal, they will be presented at PATAS for an adjudicator to consider, along with the council rejection of your appeal which will need to deal with you and your witnesses statements.
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