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elev8
Hey everyone.
1st post... 1st alleged offence...

Received a letter recently alleging
- Dangerous driving
- Driving without due care and attention
Along with request for details of driver at the date and time specified above.

No details were included about any proof or evidence to support any allegation. Just date, time & location.

I am owner & sole driver of the vehicle.

My question is this...
The time of the alleged incident indicated on both letter and driver details request is ambiguous.
It is a date, followed by a time in HH:MM format... 12hr, with am/pm not specified.
Reading the time literally implies am, therefore I was at work and nowhere near the location in question.
However if the time is PM, then I could have been at the location and driving the car. I was not pulled over, and no Police were present to the best of my knowledge.

I have clean licence & never had any tickets or involvement with any traffic offences before.
I'm unsure how best to proceed. Advice appreciated. Please let me know if more info is needed.
The Rookie
Usually the best way forward is to be compliant and not do anything to get their backs up, these notice usually relate to minor car park nudges (are failing to stop/failing to report on the list as well?) and once details are swapped they will leave it to the insurer, be a smart alec and they may decide further action is justified.

Of course if you think it may relate to more than that then you need to tell us so we can give best advice, however if you think it may be that then you could wait until after the 14 days from the event and reply asking for them to clarify the time, you may then have an argument that the NIP wasn't adequate, except that if you recall the event that doesn't help you anyway as you won't have been disadvantaged in any way.

You really need to tell us a bit more about what you think the allegation is about, your post suggests you do know as those that don't say so in their first post!
Jlc
QUOTE (elev8 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2015 - 11:08) *
No details were included about any proof or evidence to support any allegation. Just date, time & location.
Nor is any required. At this stage just the driver identity is requested.

Was the letter received within 14 days of the alleged incident?
elev8
Thanks Rookie,

I really *don't* know for sure what the allegation is about.
I drive that road a fair bit, and have no clear memory of the particular date in question (over 3 weeks ago now).
I do know there was no nudge/impact or accident of any kind.
I was not pulled over, and there were no police present to my knowledge.
I'm thinking it may have been a complaint about an overtake or something of that nature, but as I said can't be certain about the particular date in question.

Regarding the 14 day rule, if "1" is the following day, then my letter is dated & the envelope marked as delivered on day 14. Where does that leave me regarding clarification of the date & the NIP being invalid?
I'm talking 14 calendar days by the way, weekends included. If weekends are excluded then the latter is marked delivered on day 12 (if 1 is the day after the alleged incident).

Appreciate your help!
The Rookie
Day 14 is fine, day 15 not.

As you don't know 'for sure' then you clearly have an idea, as such trying to argue that the NIP is defective and wasn't complete until outside the 14 days is pretty much a non starter.

Personally I'd be playing ball, it is likely that they will get details and either take NFA or offer a course unless the incident was very serious.

You may be invited for an interview, ALWAYS do this at the station where you are entitled to free legal aid 9arrange with a solicitor) never at home!
elev8
Thanks. I figured day 14 would probably be OK.

My point was more about the failure to specify AM/PM as the time of the allegation.
As the time, strictly, reads as am, I could truthfully argue I was not present. If this is "a complaint" (the only thing I think it possibly could be) then as such it is purely my word against someone else's.
I was thinking I could therefore legitimately claim they must have reported the plate wrongly, based on the time given on the letter.

To be clear, I'm not deliberately with-holding or trying to cover up anything here.
As I said I drive that road a fair bit and truthfully do not remember the specific date in question.
I do overtake people on that bit of road, although always in what I would consider to be a safe manner. I have seen others do the same thing countless times.
It's possible someone didn't like it and reported me. That's the only thing I think it could be.
I'd be perfectly happy to hold my hands up and take a course, or even a rap on the knuckles fine & points if need be. I am not trying to get away with anything.
But what has me worried is "Dangerous Driving" (on the letter tho not the driver details notice) because the implications there are far more serious, obviously.

I don't want to open myself up to potentially serious consequences by making any admissions I'm not absolutely certain about by handling the forms incorrectly, thats all.

EDIT - Failing to stop/report are not on the list. Only Dangerous driving & driving without due care & attention (in that order).
EDIT2 - If invited for interview, how do I go about organising solicitor/legal aid?
The Rookie
As you know where you were at the pm time and it was there, you are running perilously close to perverting the course of justice, I really wouldn't go there, also once it's clear you will have blown any potential goodwill.

Dangerous and without due care are statutory alternatives, had it said due care you should still be convicted of dangerous and vice versa, so don't read too much into it!
elev8
Thank you for the help mate smile.gif
I shall complete said forms with my own details.
There's an allowance for "additional information" to explain what happened from my own point of view.
Would you suggest I do that, or just wait to see what comes back first?
I don't want to open a can of worms or paint myself into a corner obviously, but by the same token I honestly don't think I did anything wrong & feel giving an explanation may help.
Not sure what to do for the best...
Jlc
At the moment stick to the request - i.e. who was driving at the given time and place. (am/pm aside)
Gan
I personally wouldn't be providing any additional information when I don't even know what's been alleged

You could call and ask them to clarify if it's am or pm

If it's am, you answer the question that's been asked - vehicle wasn't there

If it's pm, you can ask what it's about
martinbiz
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 17 Mar 2015 - 13:58) *
At the moment stick to the request - i.e. who was driving at the given time and place. (am/pm aside)



Wouldn't that be impossible! I would give do nothing until clarification is given
I am Weasel
QUOTE (martinbiz @ Wed, 18 Mar 2015 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 17 Mar 2015 - 13:58) *
At the moment stick to the request - i.e. who was driving at the given time and place. (am/pm aside)



Wouldn't that be impossible! I would give do nothing until clarification is given

Doing nothing would be a sure-fire way of ending up with 6 points and eye-watering insurance premiums due to the MS90 conviction code
Jlc
QUOTE (martinbiz @ Wed, 18 Mar 2015 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 17 Mar 2015 - 13:58) *
At the moment stick to the request - i.e. who was driving at the given time and place. (am/pm aside)



Wouldn't that be impossible! I would give do nothing until clarification is given

Taken slightly out of context and qualified with the am/pm.

I meant not to 'put one's point of view'.
elev8
I'm liking Gan's plan. Reckon that's what I'll do.
Thanks for all the help guys.

* incidentally, is Gan an intentional Blakes 7 reference? If not I've just totally given away my sci-fi geek credentials lol.
martinbiz
QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Wed, 18 Mar 2015 - 13:29) *
Doing nothing would be a sure-fire way of ending up with 6 points and eye-watering insurance premiums due to the MS90 conviction code



That's why I added the part 'until clarification is given', How could the OP possibly answer when he does not know if it is 6 in the evening or 6 in the morning that they are talking about.
southpaw82
Hmm, let's see...

Dear Sirs,

I refer to your notice ref XXX

If the time of the alleged incident was HH:MM AM then I was at work and the vehicle was parked at [location] and I had the keys in my possession. If the time of the alleged incident was HH:MM PM then the driver was...
Logician
Magic!
4x4x4
QUOTE (elev8 @ Tue, 17 Mar 2015 - 12:18) *
I do overtake people on that bit of road, although always in what I would consider to be a safe manner. I have seen others do the same thing countless times.
It's possible someone didn't like it and reported me. That's the only thing I think it could be.
Not judging but reading between the lines that comes across as 'overtaking there is a bit marginal and there is always the chance of upsetting someone'.
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