Hi all,
My car was parked on a behind terrace hill road which was unrestricted to parking in Durham. We had some heavy snow last week and the road which the car was parked on was icy. I tried to move my car on a Saturday morning to get out but it was too slippery and I slipped down the hill even with the handbrake on. I tried to return to my original parking spot but again it was too slippery. I was about to travel to London and couldn't get my car out safely so decided to take the train. As I couldn't get my car out safely or return it to the place it was parked I had to abandon it in a CPZ area. I left a quick note on the windscreen explaining the situation. When I returned on Monday morning I had two PCNs for parking in a permit area without a permit - one from Sat afternoon and one from Monday early morning.
I tried to informally challenge these but both times they rejected my reason.
The last email I received states:
"
I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority"
In a unrelated PCN in a different thread someone mentioned there was a procedural problem with the use of Will receive not May receive.
Is this worth challenging the PCNs on once a NTO is received.
Unfortunately don't have a copies of the PCNs with me today before I am asked to post!
Full Version: Car abandoned due to ice
You should have an easy win for one at least - you only parked once, so multiple tickets for the same offence is a nonsense. The second ticket should never have been issued, and having been issued, the council should have cancelled it immediately.
Full Correspondance:
I am writing with regards to two parking tickets I received this weekend when I left my car on Alexandria crescent rear.
I live on The Avenue and my house backs onto the path off Alexandria crescent, the steep back road parallel with Crossgate Peth which is where I am allowed to park my car without a permit as told by a parking officer.
As I say, I normally park there but there was a lot of snow and ice last week. I had a work event in London this weekend and I got into my car on Saturday to drive but was unable to maintain control of my car - the wheels were spinning and the brakes didn't have any influence on the ice! Even the handbrake didn't have an impact. My car started sliding back down the hill, I managed to stop it stationary at the bottom where the path meets Alexandria crescent rear. Rather than leave it blocking the through way of Alexandria Crescent rear I managed to move it to the side, but couldn't move it any further or back to it's position up the hill where I would have liked to park it as normal. I wrote a note explaining that I had to abandon my car over the weekend because of the ice and put it in the window - I obviously would have parked in my normal parking place and not risked getting a ticket if I had been able to get it up the slippery ice! I came back on Monday to two tickets (one on Saturday and one on Monday morning) , but I did notice that my car was covered in ice so my note explaining why my car left wasn't really visible!
I can only apologise that I had to leave the car there over the weekend and get a train down to London, abandoning my car without a permit rather than parking it sensibly at the rear of my house. I hope you will understand that it had to be left because of the icy conditions and I couldn't park it in it's usual space up the hill as it was too steep for the car to stay there safely as the wheels simply kept slipping on the ice.
Many thanks for reading my letter explaining the situation and I hope you take it into consideration and cancel the two tickets.
All the best,
-----
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER DUXXXX and DUXXXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
There is a sign where you parked that explains that the area you parked in is for people with a resident's permit.
You were issued a Penalty Charge Notice for parking without a resident's permit that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a resident's permit, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details.
I note your comments and I accept that snow and ice were an issue for vehicles due to snowfall on the evening of 28th January 2015. However, photographic evidence taken at the time of Notice issue shows that weather conditions were improving and I am unable to accept that you ‘had to abandon your vehicle’.
The location your vehicle was parked in is subject to a ‘permit only’ restriction and motorists are not permitted to park their vehicle in contravention of the restrictions in place of their own accord.
In such instances; motorists are expected to contact the Parking Shop at 8am (of the enforceable day, Monday – Saturday) to make staff aware of the parking conditions and they would be advised further by staff.
We take this approach so that the parking controls continue to serve their purpose throughout the year.
You have these choices:
•You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
•If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
•The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
•If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
•It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
•online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
•by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
•by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
•in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
------
Dear Appeals Officer,
Thank you for your reply to my correspondence. I believe there was a slight confusion from my last email which may have impacted your response.
I abandoned my car on the Saturday morning as the road conditions on the non restricted road parallel to The Avenue was too icy to safely repark (please see first email about slipping down the hill on the hand break when trying to get out). I then had to leave Durham for the weekend and did not return until the morning of Monday 2nd Feb. As such, I unfortunately did not have the opportunity to move my car, hence why it was still present early morning on the Monday.
In regards to the photographic evidence, these pictures from the Notice from Saturday are of the flat road that connects The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and not of the unrestricted road I was initially parked in. This road, unlike the one photographed, has it's sun blocked by the buildings on The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and therefore ice remained for much longer. It also has much fewer vehicles using this road and wearing the ice down.
For the sake of clarity, I was parked on the unrestricted road on the morning of Saturday 31st, tried to drive to London for the weekend, my car lost control and I could not get it any further or back to its initial starting place and as a result was forced to abandon it and take the train.
I hope this helps in getting a better understanding of the events that led to the unfortunate situation. I am sorry that I did not contact the parking shop - I did not know that this was a possibility.
Regards,
-------
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER XXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notices.
I have looked into your cases and read the previous letters (yours to us and ours to you). I can see that you are raising a point that I answered in my previous letter. Although I understand that you feel strongly about this point, I do not have anything new to add to the answer I gave in my previous letter.
I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
I am writing with regards to two parking tickets I received this weekend when I left my car on Alexandria crescent rear.
I live on The Avenue and my house backs onto the path off Alexandria crescent, the steep back road parallel with Crossgate Peth which is where I am allowed to park my car without a permit as told by a parking officer.
As I say, I normally park there but there was a lot of snow and ice last week. I had a work event in London this weekend and I got into my car on Saturday to drive but was unable to maintain control of my car - the wheels were spinning and the brakes didn't have any influence on the ice! Even the handbrake didn't have an impact. My car started sliding back down the hill, I managed to stop it stationary at the bottom where the path meets Alexandria crescent rear. Rather than leave it blocking the through way of Alexandria Crescent rear I managed to move it to the side, but couldn't move it any further or back to it's position up the hill where I would have liked to park it as normal. I wrote a note explaining that I had to abandon my car over the weekend because of the ice and put it in the window - I obviously would have parked in my normal parking place and not risked getting a ticket if I had been able to get it up the slippery ice! I came back on Monday to two tickets (one on Saturday and one on Monday morning) , but I did notice that my car was covered in ice so my note explaining why my car left wasn't really visible!
I can only apologise that I had to leave the car there over the weekend and get a train down to London, abandoning my car without a permit rather than parking it sensibly at the rear of my house. I hope you will understand that it had to be left because of the icy conditions and I couldn't park it in it's usual space up the hill as it was too steep for the car to stay there safely as the wheels simply kept slipping on the ice.
Many thanks for reading my letter explaining the situation and I hope you take it into consideration and cancel the two tickets.
All the best,
-----
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER DUXXXX and DUXXXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
There is a sign where you parked that explains that the area you parked in is for people with a resident's permit.
You were issued a Penalty Charge Notice for parking without a resident's permit that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a resident's permit, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details.
I note your comments and I accept that snow and ice were an issue for vehicles due to snowfall on the evening of 28th January 2015. However, photographic evidence taken at the time of Notice issue shows that weather conditions were improving and I am unable to accept that you ‘had to abandon your vehicle’.
The location your vehicle was parked in is subject to a ‘permit only’ restriction and motorists are not permitted to park their vehicle in contravention of the restrictions in place of their own accord.
In such instances; motorists are expected to contact the Parking Shop at 8am (of the enforceable day, Monday – Saturday) to make staff aware of the parking conditions and they would be advised further by staff.
We take this approach so that the parking controls continue to serve their purpose throughout the year.
You have these choices:
•You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
•If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
•The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
•If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
•It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
•online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
•by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
•by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
•in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
------
Dear Appeals Officer,
Thank you for your reply to my correspondence. I believe there was a slight confusion from my last email which may have impacted your response.
I abandoned my car on the Saturday morning as the road conditions on the non restricted road parallel to The Avenue was too icy to safely repark (please see first email about slipping down the hill on the hand break when trying to get out). I then had to leave Durham for the weekend and did not return until the morning of Monday 2nd Feb. As such, I unfortunately did not have the opportunity to move my car, hence why it was still present early morning on the Monday.
In regards to the photographic evidence, these pictures from the Notice from Saturday are of the flat road that connects The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and not of the unrestricted road I was initially parked in. This road, unlike the one photographed, has it's sun blocked by the buildings on The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and therefore ice remained for much longer. It also has much fewer vehicles using this road and wearing the ice down.
For the sake of clarity, I was parked on the unrestricted road on the morning of Saturday 31st, tried to drive to London for the weekend, my car lost control and I could not get it any further or back to its initial starting place and as a result was forced to abandon it and take the train.
I hope this helps in getting a better understanding of the events that led to the unfortunate situation. I am sorry that I did not contact the parking shop - I did not know that this was a possibility.
Regards,
-------
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER XXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notices.
I have looked into your cases and read the previous letters (yours to us and ours to you). I can see that you are raising a point that I answered in my previous letter. Although I understand that you feel strongly about this point, I do not have anything new to add to the answer I gave in my previous letter.
I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
QUOTE (timbstoke @ Wed, 11 Feb 2015 - 14:24) 
You should have an easy win for one at least - you only parked once, so multiple tickets for the same offence is a nonsense. The second ticket should never have been issued, and having been issued, the council should have cancelled it immediately.
Okay thanks - seems from their replies they aren't going to consider anything further so will have to wait to the NTO I guess
We're you lawfully allowed to park where you did at any time between the first PCN and the second PCN? Or was the restriction continuous?
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Feb 2015 - 18:29)
We're you lawfully allowed to park where you did at any time between the first PCN and the second PCN? Or was the restriction continuous?
Sunday is free of charge so was a break in the restriction
If you are prepared to stand your ground, take them to TPT, but if you haven't yet had a Notice to Owner, you have to appeal again, (formally), and only if rejected then, can you appeal to TPT. I would expect one PCN to be cancelled as it is a continuous contravention even if Sunday is free. They are being disingenuous about contacting the Parking Department. What if you were a total stranger to Durham ? Even if you lost at TPT, at least you will have put them to a lot of inconvenience and this does count, as they expect to inconvenience motorists with impunity
WE haven't seen the PCNs nor the restrictions in place so have no idea if continuous contravention will fly or not for the second.
However, based on what we have.
I left my parking place and found that the road conditions were such that I ended up at the bottom of the hill and could not return.
I then abandoned my vehicle, made no attempt to find a lawful parking place where I could leave it and went off for a weekend away.
Harsh I know but is the interpretation an adjudicator is likely to put on it.
We can take as a given that you could not return to your place because of the hill.
But what stopped you driving away from the bottom and finding a parking place?
What stopped you phoning a friend and asking them to move the vehicle once conditions got better?
What stopped you from delaying or cancelling your journey to sort out the car?
Questions an adjudicator will ask before they accept that you had no option but to abandon the vehicle?
However, based on what we have.
I left my parking place and found that the road conditions were such that I ended up at the bottom of the hill and could not return.
I then abandoned my vehicle, made no attempt to find a lawful parking place where I could leave it and went off for a weekend away.
Harsh I know but is the interpretation an adjudicator is likely to put on it.
We can take as a given that you could not return to your place because of the hill.
But what stopped you driving away from the bottom and finding a parking place?
What stopped you phoning a friend and asking them to move the vehicle once conditions got better?
What stopped you from delaying or cancelling your journey to sort out the car?
Questions an adjudicator will ask before they accept that you had no option but to abandon the vehicle?
- The ice conditions on the road it was abandoned on was also bad and I did't want to risk it colliding with a wall.
- No friends in Durham who are insured to drive the vehicle
- Was going away for a memorial concert that evening in London, could hardly delay my journey.
This was the hill that I usually park my car on.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Ave...96abe2ac28d27c7
- No friends in Durham who are insured to drive the vehicle
- Was going away for a memorial concert that evening in London, could hardly delay my journey.
This was the hill that I usually park my car on.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Ave...96abe2ac28d27c7
Still playing devil's advocate I'm afraid.
The road at the bottom of the hill seems relatively flat so while I can understand difficulties on the hill, less so on the flat. Looks like 20-30 yards to the "main" road. Assuming that you did stop in the narrow walled road?
Most fully comp insurance includes 3rd party to drive other cars, even if only in emergency
No later train? Seems like half an hour and some salt and ice could have been cleared enough.
I'm asking as to win, we either need to persuade the council or an adjudicator that it was a genuine situation outside of your control.
I'm fairly certain the initial problems on the hill would satisfy at least the latter.
It is what happened afterwards that seems a problem and it is no good sticking with it if we can pick holes in it.
I'm more interested in the restrictions breached.
The walled road has permit area End signs but can't find the beginning signs at the other end or any that separate your hill from that narrow road.
So where did you leave the vehicle?
What is the contravention on the PCNs ?
The road at the bottom of the hill seems relatively flat so while I can understand difficulties on the hill, less so on the flat. Looks like 20-30 yards to the "main" road. Assuming that you did stop in the narrow walled road?
Most fully comp insurance includes 3rd party to drive other cars, even if only in emergency
No later train? Seems like half an hour and some salt and ice could have been cleared enough.
I'm asking as to win, we either need to persuade the council or an adjudicator that it was a genuine situation outside of your control.
I'm fairly certain the initial problems on the hill would satisfy at least the latter.
It is what happened afterwards that seems a problem and it is no good sticking with it if we can pick holes in it.
I'm more interested in the restrictions breached.
The walled road has permit area End signs but can't find the beginning signs at the other end or any that separate your hill from that narrow road.
So where did you leave the vehicle?
What is the contravention on the PCNs ?
Appreciate your help DancingDad and understand your approach.
Sorry I can't provide pictures of the PCNs at the moment but I do know they were both code 1 if that helps?
I left the car on that walled flatish road (90 degrees to the avenue)
Sorry I can't provide pictures of the PCNs at the moment but I do know they were both code 1 if that helps?
I left the car on that walled flatish road (90 degrees to the avenue)
Just so we are clear, somewhere along here ?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.774941,-1...olIIu2g!2e0
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.774941,-1...olIIu2g!2e0
OP, the PCNs cannot be code 1 because this relates to yellow lines whereas your PCNs relate to parking places.
I don't know what you want from us because we weren't there, we haven't seen pics of the car in situ on the days neither have you posted an absolutely clear Google map link showing where you were and describing how you got there and we haven't seen the PCNs. One of the posted links shows a sign which states Permit Parking Area ends here. So, if your claim is that you were parked initially outside this area but slid into it, then you need to show that your incursion into the area was marginal otherwise your argument doesn't fly.
I don't know what you want from us because we weren't there, we haven't seen pics of the car in situ on the days neither have you posted an absolutely clear Google map link showing where you were and describing how you got there and we haven't seen the PCNs. One of the posted links shows a sign which states Permit Parking Area ends here. So, if your claim is that you were parked initially outside this area but slid into it, then you need to show that your incursion into the area was marginal otherwise your argument doesn't fly.
PCN and Location Map attached
I cannot see any signs on streetview that differentiate where you parked from where you normally do.
Which would, I'd have thought, meant that you had a permit or at least should have normally?
However, code 16 mkes sense given the entry signs from the Avenue but where does the permit area start in the other direction ?
Which would, I'd have thought, meant that you had a permit or at least should have normally?
However, code 16 mkes sense given the entry signs from the Avenue but where does the permit area start in the other direction ?
And the backs of the PCNs please.
They are not code 1, where did this come from?
They are not code 1, where did this come from?
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 13 Feb 2015 - 21:37)
I cannot see any signs on streetview that differentiate where you parked from where you normally do.
Which would, I'd have thought, meant that you had a permit or at least should have normally?
However, code 16 mkes sense given the entry signs from the Avenue but where does the permit area start in the other direction ?
Which would, I'd have thought, meant that you had a permit or at least should have normally?
However, code 16 mkes sense given the entry signs from the Avenue but where does the permit area start in the other direction ?
No Park here everyday without a permit with no issue and have been told by an enforcement officer that no permit is needed as it is deemed a private road
Area I believe starts at bottom of Crossgate Peth
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 13 Feb 2015 - 21:47)
And the backs of the PCNs please.
They are not code 1, where did this come from?
They are not code 1, where did this come from?
Apologies, this was my mistake
Ok
Got the signs by the lights on the entry from the main road.
Placement of those signs don't seem brilliant but not sure poor enough to fail being adequate.
I'm struggling to find anything here
Got the signs by the lights on the entry from the main road.
Placement of those signs don't seem brilliant but not sure poor enough to fail being adequate.
I'm struggling to find anything here
How about the will/may issue?
Also, what's the opinion on two tickets for same offence?
Also, what's the opinion on two tickets for same offence?
TPT adjudicators seem to blow hot an cold on procedural issues, generally seeming to take a point of view that if it is major and does affect the course of enforcement or shows a serious failure of the council, they accept but otherwise dismiss.
Will/May is one of those that they seem to take in context and do not damn for a word but do allow appeals where the spirit of being able to use discretion is in doubt.
Short answer, I would use it but not rely on a simple word error.
Continuous contravention.
It was said earlier, There is no restriction on a Sunday. So the vehicle was in contravention on Saturday, lawfully parked on Sunday and in a new contravention on Monday.
If the permit area was 24/7, there is argument as the vehicle was permanently in contravention and you cannot be penalised twice. The converse is that the vehicle status changes with the restriction changes and though parked lawfully when restrictions don't apply, this does not prevent enforcement when they do.
The only avenue I have left is whether or not the council had cause to offer discretion or failed to consider mitigation.
To explore that further, we could do with seeing what you sent and their replies, in full please (less personal stuff)
Will/May is one of those that they seem to take in context and do not damn for a word but do allow appeals where the spirit of being able to use discretion is in doubt.
Short answer, I would use it but not rely on a simple word error.
Continuous contravention.
It was said earlier, There is no restriction on a Sunday. So the vehicle was in contravention on Saturday, lawfully parked on Sunday and in a new contravention on Monday.
If the permit area was 24/7, there is argument as the vehicle was permanently in contravention and you cannot be penalised twice. The converse is that the vehicle status changes with the restriction changes and though parked lawfully when restrictions don't apply, this does not prevent enforcement when they do.
The only avenue I have left is whether or not the council had cause to offer discretion or failed to consider mitigation.
To explore that further, we could do with seeing what you sent and their replies, in full please (less personal stuff)
ahhh drat!
Full Correspondance:
I am writing with regards to two parking tickets I received this weekend when I left my car on Alexandria crescent rear.
I live on The Avenue and my house backs onto the path off Alexandria crescent, the steep back road parallel with Crossgate Peth which is where I am allowed to park my car without a permit as told by a parking officer.
As I say, I normally park there but there was a lot of snow and ice last week. I had a work event in London this weekend and I got into my car on Saturday to drive but was unable to maintain control of my car - the wheels were spinning and the brakes didn't have any influence on the ice! Even the handbrake didn't have an impact. My car started sliding back down the hill, I managed to stop it stationary at the bottom where the path meets Alexandria crescent rear. Rather than leave it blocking the through way of Alexandria Crescent rear I managed to move it to the side, but couldn't move it any further or back to it's position up the hill where I would have liked to park it as normal. I wrote a note explaining that I had to abandon my car over the weekend because of the ice and put it in the window - I obviously would have parked in my normal parking place and not risked getting a ticket if I had been able to get it up the slippery ice! I came back on Monday to two tickets (one on Saturday and one on Monday morning) , but I did notice that my car was covered in ice so my note explaining why my car left wasn't really visible!
I can only apologise that I had to leave the car there over the weekend and get a train down to London, abandoning my car without a permit rather than parking it sensibly at the rear of my house. I hope you will understand that it had to be left because of the icy conditions and I couldn't park it in it's usual space up the hill as it was too steep for the car to stay there safely as the wheels simply kept slipping on the ice.
Many thanks for reading my letter explaining the situation and I hope you take it into consideration and cancel the two tickets.
All the best,
-----
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER DUXXXX and DUXXXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
There is a sign where you parked that explains that the area you parked in is for people with a resident's permit.
You were issued a Penalty Charge Notice for parking without a resident's permit that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a resident's permit, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details.
I note your comments and I accept that snow and ice were an issue for vehicles due to snowfall on the evening of 28th January 2015. However, photographic evidence taken at the time of Notice issue shows that weather conditions were improving and I am unable to accept that you ‘had to abandon your vehicle’.
The location your vehicle was parked in is subject to a ‘permit only’ restriction and motorists are not permitted to park their vehicle in contravention of the restrictions in place of their own accord.
In such instances; motorists are expected to contact the Parking Shop at 8am (of the enforceable day, Monday – Saturday) to make staff aware of the parking conditions and they would be advised further by staff.
We take this approach so that the parking controls continue to serve their purpose throughout the year.
You have these choices:
•You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
•If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
•The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
•If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
•It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
•online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
•by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
•by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
•in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
------
Dear Appeals Officer,
Thank you for your reply to my correspondence. I believe there was a slight confusion from my last email which may have impacted your response.
I abandoned my car on the Saturday morning as the road conditions on the non restricted road parallel to The Avenue was too icy to safely repark (please see first email about slipping down the hill on the hand break when trying to get out). I then had to leave Durham for the weekend and did not return until the morning of Monday 2nd Feb. As such, I unfortunately did not have the opportunity to move my car, hence why it was still present early morning on the Monday.
In regards to the photographic evidence, these pictures from the Notice from Saturday are of the flat road that connects The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and not of the unrestricted road I was initially parked in. This road, unlike the one photographed, has it's sun blocked by the buildings on The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and therefore ice remained for much longer. It also has much fewer vehicles using this road and wearing the ice down.
For the sake of clarity, I was parked on the unrestricted road on the morning of Saturday 31st, tried to drive to London for the weekend, my car lost control and I could not get it any further or back to its initial starting place and as a result was forced to abandon it and take the train.
I hope this helps in getting a better understanding of the events that led to the unfortunate situation. I am sorry that I did not contact the parking shop - I did not know that this was a possibility.
Regards,
-------
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER XXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notices.
I have looked into your cases and read the previous letters (yours to us and ours to you). I can see that you are raising a point that I answered in my previous letter. Although I understand that you feel strongly about this point, I do not have anything new to add to the answer I gave in my previous letter.
I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
Full Correspondance:
I am writing with regards to two parking tickets I received this weekend when I left my car on Alexandria crescent rear.
I live on The Avenue and my house backs onto the path off Alexandria crescent, the steep back road parallel with Crossgate Peth which is where I am allowed to park my car without a permit as told by a parking officer.
As I say, I normally park there but there was a lot of snow and ice last week. I had a work event in London this weekend and I got into my car on Saturday to drive but was unable to maintain control of my car - the wheels were spinning and the brakes didn't have any influence on the ice! Even the handbrake didn't have an impact. My car started sliding back down the hill, I managed to stop it stationary at the bottom where the path meets Alexandria crescent rear. Rather than leave it blocking the through way of Alexandria Crescent rear I managed to move it to the side, but couldn't move it any further or back to it's position up the hill where I would have liked to park it as normal. I wrote a note explaining that I had to abandon my car over the weekend because of the ice and put it in the window - I obviously would have parked in my normal parking place and not risked getting a ticket if I had been able to get it up the slippery ice! I came back on Monday to two tickets (one on Saturday and one on Monday morning) , but I did notice that my car was covered in ice so my note explaining why my car left wasn't really visible!
I can only apologise that I had to leave the car there over the weekend and get a train down to London, abandoning my car without a permit rather than parking it sensibly at the rear of my house. I hope you will understand that it had to be left because of the icy conditions and I couldn't park it in it's usual space up the hill as it was too steep for the car to stay there safely as the wheels simply kept slipping on the ice.
Many thanks for reading my letter explaining the situation and I hope you take it into consideration and cancel the two tickets.
All the best,
-----
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER DUXXXX and DUXXXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
There is a sign where you parked that explains that the area you parked in is for people with a resident's permit.
You were issued a Penalty Charge Notice for parking without a resident's permit that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a resident's permit, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer can see all its details.
I note your comments and I accept that snow and ice were an issue for vehicles due to snowfall on the evening of 28th January 2015. However, photographic evidence taken at the time of Notice issue shows that weather conditions were improving and I am unable to accept that you ‘had to abandon your vehicle’.
The location your vehicle was parked in is subject to a ‘permit only’ restriction and motorists are not permitted to park their vehicle in contravention of the restrictions in place of their own accord.
In such instances; motorists are expected to contact the Parking Shop at 8am (of the enforceable day, Monday – Saturday) to make staff aware of the parking conditions and they would be advised further by staff.
We take this approach so that the parking controls continue to serve their purpose throughout the year.
You have these choices:
•You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
•If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
•The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
•If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
•It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
•online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
•by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
•by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
•in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
------
Dear Appeals Officer,
Thank you for your reply to my correspondence. I believe there was a slight confusion from my last email which may have impacted your response.
I abandoned my car on the Saturday morning as the road conditions on the non restricted road parallel to The Avenue was too icy to safely repark (please see first email about slipping down the hill on the hand break when trying to get out). I then had to leave Durham for the weekend and did not return until the morning of Monday 2nd Feb. As such, I unfortunately did not have the opportunity to move my car, hence why it was still present early morning on the Monday.
In regards to the photographic evidence, these pictures from the Notice from Saturday are of the flat road that connects The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and not of the unrestricted road I was initially parked in. This road, unlike the one photographed, has it's sun blocked by the buildings on The Avenue and Crossgate Peth and therefore ice remained for much longer. It also has much fewer vehicles using this road and wearing the ice down.
For the sake of clarity, I was parked on the unrestricted road on the morning of Saturday 31st, tried to drive to London for the weekend, my car lost control and I could not get it any further or back to its initial starting place and as a result was forced to abandon it and take the train.
I hope this helps in getting a better understanding of the events that led to the unfortunate situation. I am sorry that I did not contact the parking shop - I did not know that this was a possibility.
Regards,
-------
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
PENALTY CHARGE NUMBER XXXX
Thank you for writing to us.
I have carefully considered what you say but I have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notices.
I have looked into your cases and read the previous letters (yours to us and ours to you). I can see that you are raising a point that I answered in my previous letter. Although I understand that you feel strongly about this point, I do not have anything new to add to the answer I gave in my previous letter.
I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 (per Notice) if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 (per Notice) within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 (per Notice) penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
If you are going to take this further then the two principal issues are continuous contravention and the will/may issue.
You already have details of the latter ground in your last thread and it is reinforced by these :-
PATAS:- 2110072817, 2100649871, 2110415753, 2120021652, 2130049862, 2120448511, 212058885A, 2130236316, 2130516990, 2140068320, 2140026692, 2140006797, 2140046893, 2110029250
The continuous contravention ground has been complicated lately --- let's say due to time-plates. IMO it is still unfair that you "abandoned " your vehicle and the Council seek to punish you twice. This would be a viable appeal, o/s parking legislation, by way of a collateral challenge.
You have the "benefit" of two Code 16s so we have the same contravention. I believe the Council would enter its own "bad for duplicity" minefield if it sought to segregate these PCN's into two distinct contraventions which should be individually pursued.
Therefore I would submit something like this:-
The second PCN (No.??????)"Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit" was issued to my vehicle on ??????? although the vehicle had not moved since the first PCN for the same contravention was issued. This is therefore a continuous contravention and the second PCN should be classed as invalid and cancelled. The effect of the second PCN is that I am being penalised twice for the same alleged contravention. This is both unfair and against the European Convention on Human Rights which indicates you cannot be punished twice for the same "offence". Therefore this penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of this case.
In terms of Continuous Contravention I would refer the Council to PATAS Cases 2110166557, 2140191859, 2140184092, 2140234882, which all justify this ground of appeal.
Mick
You already have details of the latter ground in your last thread and it is reinforced by these :-
PATAS:- 2110072817, 2100649871, 2110415753, 2120021652, 2130049862, 2120448511, 212058885A, 2130236316, 2130516990, 2140068320, 2140026692, 2140006797, 2140046893, 2110029250
The continuous contravention ground has been complicated lately --- let's say due to time-plates. IMO it is still unfair that you "abandoned " your vehicle and the Council seek to punish you twice. This would be a viable appeal, o/s parking legislation, by way of a collateral challenge.
You have the "benefit" of two Code 16s so we have the same contravention. I believe the Council would enter its own "bad for duplicity" minefield if it sought to segregate these PCN's into two distinct contraventions which should be individually pursued.
Therefore I would submit something like this:-
The second PCN (No.??????)"Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit" was issued to my vehicle on ??????? although the vehicle had not moved since the first PCN for the same contravention was issued. This is therefore a continuous contravention and the second PCN should be classed as invalid and cancelled. The effect of the second PCN is that I am being penalised twice for the same alleged contravention. This is both unfair and against the European Convention on Human Rights which indicates you cannot be punished twice for the same "offence". Therefore this penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of this case.
In terms of Continuous Contravention I would refer the Council to PATAS Cases 2110166557, 2140191859, 2140184092, 2140234882, which all justify this ground of appeal.
Mick
QUOTE
In such instances; motorists are expected to contact the Parking Shop at 8am (of the enforceable day, Monday – Saturday) to make staff aware of the parking conditions and they would be advised further by staff.
And how are motorists meant to know about this expectation?
As previously advised in my email dated 11.02.2015; “I must advise that the decision to uphold both Penalty Charge Notices is final at this stage. If you wish to formally challenge the Notice, please follow “you have these choices” below”.
I must reiterate that the informal challenge for the above Penalty Charge Notice and the previously challenged Notice DUXXXXXXX have been rejected as your vehicle was parked in contravention on both occasions.
I acknowledge that you may not have been in the Durham City area at the time the second Penalty Charge Notice was issued; however, it is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle is parked in accordance with the parking restrictions in the first instance to avoid subsequent Penalty Charge Notices.
It is normal practice to issue multiple Penalty Charge Notices to vehicles parked in contravention, it would be unreasonable to expect the Civil Enforcement Officer to issue one Penalty Charge Notice and leave the vehicle for the remaining days in anticipation for the driver to return to comply with the restrictions or to remove the vehicle to an alternative permitted parking area.
In conclusion, I remain satisfied that there was clear indication that the area is subject to permit holders only when you initially parked and I am also confident that the weather conditions had significantly improved on the 31.01.2015 and the road conditions were adequate. In the event road or weather conditions prohibit you from parking correctly, the driver should make contact with the relevant authorities, in this case NSL or Durham County Council. Drivers should not park in contravention of their own accord.
Finally, you must follow the formal challenge procedure, should you wish to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice further.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 8 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice.
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
Appeals Officer
------
This site shows the weather in Durham on the 31st Jan with it clearly showing snow between midnight and 6am.
http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Durham-w...-Durham/GB.aspx
I must reiterate that the informal challenge for the above Penalty Charge Notice and the previously challenged Notice DUXXXXXXX have been rejected as your vehicle was parked in contravention on both occasions.
I acknowledge that you may not have been in the Durham City area at the time the second Penalty Charge Notice was issued; however, it is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle is parked in accordance with the parking restrictions in the first instance to avoid subsequent Penalty Charge Notices.
It is normal practice to issue multiple Penalty Charge Notices to vehicles parked in contravention, it would be unreasonable to expect the Civil Enforcement Officer to issue one Penalty Charge Notice and leave the vehicle for the remaining days in anticipation for the driver to return to comply with the restrictions or to remove the vehicle to an alternative permitted parking area.
In conclusion, I remain satisfied that there was clear indication that the area is subject to permit holders only when you initially parked and I am also confident that the weather conditions had significantly improved on the 31.01.2015 and the road conditions were adequate. In the event road or weather conditions prohibit you from parking correctly, the driver should make contact with the relevant authorities, in this case NSL or Durham County Council. Drivers should not park in contravention of their own accord.
Finally, you must follow the formal challenge procedure, should you wish to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice further.
You have these choices:
• You can pay the discount charge of £35.00 if your payment reaches us within 8 days of the date of this letter. You can pay £70.00 within 28 days of the date your Penalty Charge Notice was issued.
• If the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the vehicle owner. This provides a further 28 days to either pay the £70.00 penalty charge or make a formal representation to Durham County Council. If you decide to formally challenge your Penalty Charge Notice, please do not write to us again but wait until the Notice to Owner arrives.
• The authority must consider any representations made within the statutory timescale, even where it has previously concluded that the evidence does not merit the cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice.
• If the authority rejects the owner's formal representation s/he will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal; and
It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.
How to pay
• online at www.durham.gov.uk/pcn.
• by phone Lines are open Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays). Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) ready then call 0191 384 6633.
• by post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to ‘NSL Ltd’, write your Penalty Charge Notice number (see above) on the back, then send it to: The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Please do not send cash or credit card details.
• in person at The Parking Shop, Suite 1, Forster House, Forster Business Centre, Finchale Road, Durham, DH1 5HL. Mon–Sat, 8am–6pm (excluding bank holidays).
Yours sincerely
Appeals Officer
------
This site shows the weather in Durham on the 31st Jan with it clearly showing snow between midnight and 6am.
http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Durham-w...-Durham/GB.aspx
Wait for the NtO and then make a formal appeal, one for each PCN and add the extra appeal point relating to a single contravention for the second of the two only.
Probably just going to have to pay the 1st one as got no evidence of the ice on the hill. Will appeal the second though as Feel its for the same offence
QUOTE (jws234982 @ Sat, 21 Feb 2015 - 23:30)
Probably just going to have to pay the 1st one as got no evidence of the ice on the hill. Will appeal the second though as Feel its for the same offence
Que?
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 22 Feb 2015 - 09:21)
QUOTE (jws234982 @ Sat, 21 Feb 2015 - 23:30)
Probably just going to have to pay the 1st one as got no evidence of the ice on the hill. Will appeal the second though as Feel its for the same offence
Que?
Well i've only got 3 or 4 more days to pay at the reduced rate. So think I am going to have to pay based on the lack of evidence and their unwillingness to back down. I am thinking though of waiting for the NTO for the second PCN and formally appealing based on the fact it was for the same offence - the car had not moved. Do you disagree?
I'm not certain it is the best strategy or the right PCN to pay if you want to reduce the possible cost but it is your choice.
And I have been honest that I do not think the overall case is too firm but if you decide to only fight one, IMO the first is the better one to fight.
On that one, you are clear that the road conditions forced you to abandon the car. I believe that an adjudicator will likely accept that. But may take a dim view of you going to London and not making an effort to move the car.
On the second. Time has moved on and the restriction times have moved with it. The vehicle though left in the same place became subject to a new restriction on Monday. That is fact and I am less certain then others that this will be seen as a continuous contravention.
And the question remains why wasn't the vehicle moved?
My thoughts are:-
Either pay second, pay both or fight both.
Paying second at least has the merit of not fighting against the whole weekend without doing something about moving the car a matter of a few yards back to original and lawful parking space.
See what others think.
And I have been honest that I do not think the overall case is too firm but if you decide to only fight one, IMO the first is the better one to fight.
On that one, you are clear that the road conditions forced you to abandon the car. I believe that an adjudicator will likely accept that. But may take a dim view of you going to London and not making an effort to move the car.
On the second. Time has moved on and the restriction times have moved with it. The vehicle though left in the same place became subject to a new restriction on Monday. That is fact and I am less certain then others that this will be seen as a continuous contravention.
And the question remains why wasn't the vehicle moved?
My thoughts are:-
Either pay second, pay both or fight both.
Paying second at least has the merit of not fighting against the whole weekend without doing something about moving the car a matter of a few yards back to original and lawful parking space.
See what others think.
Okay thanks for your input dancingdad. I think I agree with the points and way forward suggested.
Just a quick question - is Code 16 the right code for this offence? There aren't parking bays marked which I think this site says there should be http://www.parkingfinesandlines.com/Contra...one/Code16.aspx ?
Just a quick question - is Code 16 the right code for this offence? There aren't parking bays marked which I think this site says there should be http://www.parkingfinesandlines.com/Contra...one/Code16.aspx ?
Confused
For the sake of completeness I paid the second ticket and formally appealed the first as per DancingDad's suggestion. Pleased to say first ticket was cancelled 
IMO best result likely to be achieved.
Well done.
Well done.
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 15:21)
IMO best result likely to be achieved.
Well done.
Well done.
Many thanks for your help
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.