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iamwhoiam
Hi.

I know that speed limits are there to protect people so I always drive carefully and never have been involved in any traffic offence before. Moreover, I always set the cruise control to 70mph on motorway and even, literally, never exceeded the 74mph speedometer reading when overtaking. However, today, I received my first NIP regarding an alleged speeding offence committed on 10th January, saying I was driving at 35mph in a 30mph variable speed limit zone (M42/M6 TOLL JCT 8-9 N/B, MP 41/0A WATER ORTON).

To be honest, for me, it is not very surprise because I can still clearly remember what had happened at that time.

Here's the thing: I (toward north) saw the first variable limit shown 60 and then about 300 meters away the 2nd gantry displayed 50. I successfully managed to reduce my speed to those limits. However, after I passed the 50mph limit, the next gantry showing 30 and it was, I believe, less than 200 meters away from the previous one. Within this distance, I could not reduce my speed in time because there was a car (dark colour) following me veeeeeeeeeery closely and had no intention to slow down. As a result, in order to avoid potential collision, I could only slow down by gradually releasing the gas paddle rather than engaging break hardly.

BTW. there were no traffic and accident in front at all. In fact, around 300 meters away, the next gantry shown NSL.

I need your guys help! I mean, yes, I know I may be offered an awareness course. However, I do not think I should get this prosecution. It's not about the money. Can I have an opportunity to explain all these? And, if it's possible for those photos also shown the car that was tailgating? Could anyone here suggest me what should I do next? I have no experience at all.

If I got a 2nd chance, what option should I take? Break whatsoever immediately when I saw 30 sign by taking the risk of my own and other people's life; or should I do the same?
peterguk
Trying to predict the behaviour of a driver behind you is no defence to the allegation.

Suggesting the driver behind you had every intention of deliberately crashing into the back of you is a trifle absurd, and taking the matter to court will only result in an expensive day out.

Assuming you haven't attending one in the last 3 years, a SAC will result.
Logician
QUOTE
I could only slow down by gradually releasing the gas paddle rather than engaging break hardly.


So the driver behind did not even see your brake lights come on - not really the best way to get him to slow down. What you are proposing is to use the defence of necessity or duress of circumstances but I fear that is simply not going to be accepted by a court on the basis of what you thought the driver behind might do. Going to court is your only option if you want to try this and to do that you have to pass up the chance of a course or fixed penalty, and when you fail in court as I think is inevitable not only will you pay a larger fine to go with your 3 points but have to pay costs with a guideline figure of £620. Take the course if offered and avoid any points, or otherwise the fixed penalty.

iamwhoiam
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 01:14) *
Trying to predict the behaviour of a driver behind you is no defence to the allegation.

Suggesting the driver behind you had every intention of deliberately crashing into the back of you is a trifle absurd, and taking the matter to court will only result in an expensive day out.

Assuming you haven't attending one in the last 3 years, a SAC will result.


Thank you for your opinion! I totally understand your professional point of view and I will take the SAC if possible.

However, in terms of the other driver's behavior, I have to say, in reality, predicting what other road users gonna do/react is always one of the most components while driving, isn't it? Otherwise, why they added a section called hazard awareness in the driving theory test nowadays? All of those are about prediction based on observation and driving experiences.

peterguk
QUOTE (iamwhoiam @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 10:25) *
However, in terms of the other driver's behavior, I have to say, in reality, predicting what other road users gonna do/react is always one of the most components while driving, isn't it? Otherwise, why they added a section called hazard awareness in the driving theory test nowadays?


In principle i agree, however, hazard awareness is generally hazards in front of you. e.g. junctions you're approaching.
Steve_999
QUOTE (iamwhoiam @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 01:05) *

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

If I got a 2nd chance, what option should I take? Break whatsoever immediately when I saw 30 sign by taking the risk of my own and other people's life; or should I do the same?


In similar circumstances I would suggest the last thing you should be doing is driving at the national speed limit (presuming that was the case before the first restriction was reached in your narrative above) with another car following so closely.

I believe the suggested solution is to gradually slow down and encourage the following vehicle to overtake. If they don't (or can't), then pull over if possible or adjust your speed such that the distance they maintain from your tailpipe is safe for the speed (over which you have control). In other words, if they drop back then you can increase speed.
iamwhoiam
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 02:39) *
QUOTE
I could only slow down by gradually releasing the gas paddle rather than engaging break hardly.


So the driver behind did not even see your brake lights come on - not really the best way to get him to slow down. What you are proposing is to use the defence of necessity or duress of circumstances but I fear that is simply not going to be accepted by a court on the basis of what you thought the driver behind might do. Going to court is your only option if you want to try this and to do that you have to pass up the chance of a course or fixed penalty, and when you fail in court as I think is inevitable not only will you pay a larger fine to go with your 3 points but have to pay costs with a guideline figure of £620. Take the course if offered and avoid any points, or otherwise the fixed penalty.


Thank you for your help! I think I may just take the SAC if they offer me one. But don't know if I write an informal letter trying to explain these and send back with NIP gonna give me a little chance.

Like I said, I've understood that my story may not a good argument in court especially when I have no strong evidence (my dashcams were returned for exchange just 2 weeks before the "incident". what a pity!). But I also need to clarify that the reason why I still clearly remember what had happened one week later is because that one was reeeeeally close; and, I thought even a little break would end up with collision. Imagine that while driving at over 40mph and you could barely see flowing car's upper edge of boonet .... I drove over 7 years. Surely this is very short period of time compare with that of many forum users. But it is still long enough for me to see a lot of drivers tailgating especially when speed limit dropped to somewhere they deem unnecessary. I'm totally ok with them. But this one is toooo much. In fact, just after we passed the 30 gantry, that car overtook me by rocket-like acceleration and loud exhaust noise.

I worked for insurance company a few years ago. Although that's in another country, I've seen way too many unforgettable scene of bloody accident to make me drive careless. Thus, I always know that, on motorway, breaking too quick sometimes is as dangerous as speeding; and, not everyone know how to drive responsibly. They are also the reasons why I installed two dashcams (front and rear ) in my car.

I'm a little bit emotional now... Sorry for that. Anyway, thank you for your opinions. I'll take them seriously.

QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 10:45) *
QUOTE (iamwhoiam @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 10:25) *
However, in terms of the other driver's behavior, I have to say, in reality, predicting what other road users gonna do/react is always one of the most components while driving, isn't it? Otherwise, why they added a section called hazard awareness in the driving theory test nowadays?


In principle i agree, however, hazard awareness is generally hazards in front of you. e.g. junctions you're approaching.


Yes, I agree with you. Maybe I just thought too much.

Thank you!

QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 10:55) *
QUOTE (iamwhoiam @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 01:05) *

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

If I got a 2nd chance, what option should I take? Break whatsoever immediately when I saw 30 sign by taking the risk of my own and other people's life; or should I do the same?


In similar circumstances I would suggest the last thing you should be doing is driving at the national speed limit (presuming that was the case before the first restriction was reached in your narrative above) with another car following so closely.

I believe the suggested solution is to gradually slow down and encourage the following vehicle to overtake. If they don't (or can't), then pull over if possible or adjust your speed such that the distance they maintain from your tailpipe is safe for the speed (over which you have control). In other words, if they drop back then you can increase speed.


Thank you for your suggestions! I'll try to handle this situation better next time by following your instruction. Thanks! smile.gif
mrh3369
If you write it could be taken that you are denying the allegation and go straight to summons, I would simply take the SAC and not rock the boat as if it gets to court you really have no defence.
Logician
There is no point in writing when you send the NIP back, they are not going to drop the matter and frankly nobody cares why you were speeding, but your letter may be taken as denying guilt in which case a course or fixed penalty are off the table and it is referred to court. In other words it cannot possibly do you any good and may harm you.
iamwhoiam
QUOTE (mrh3369 @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 11:28) *
If you write it could be taken that you are denying the allegation and go straight to summons, I would simply take the SAC and not rock the boat as if it gets to court you really have no defence.


Thank you for your advice!

QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 13:01) *
There is no point in writing when you send the NIP back, they are not going to drop the matter and frankly nobody cares why you were speeding, but your letter may be taken as denying guilt in which case a course or fixed penalty are off the table and it is referred to court. In other words it cannot possibly do you any good and may harm you.


Many thanks!
George Carter
In reality he can't have been that close else how did they get your reg number?
iamwhoiam
QUOTE (George Carter @ Sun, 18 Jan 2015 - 17:30) *
In reality he can't have been that close else how did they get your reg number?


yes. It can't be that close throughout the whole process. The distance between us kept increase gradually.
The Rookie
So he was slowing down faster than you and it wasn't safe for you to slow down any faster? Really?
iamwhoiam
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 19 Jan 2015 - 01:01) *
So he was slowing down faster than you and it wasn't safe for you to slow down any faster? Really?


Hi. I think that is because I intentionally slow down slower to gave him time and space to slow down safely. So everything can be seen from a totally different direction. At least, this is how I intent to do at that time.

I'm not trying to say I was not speeding at that moment or how right my decision was. What I did is to tell you guys what I met and exactly (from my memory) what had happened at that day and hope you can give some advises about my concerns. After all, this is my first time getting a NIP, frankly speaking, I'm still quite panic now. I believe that most of members in this forum have their first time, so you may still remember what you feel at that time.

Look, I'm not denying the fact that I was speeding. Also, I was asking what I should do next time since I am also not that confident now about the way I handle that situation was right.
The Rookie
It sounds like he judged his slowing down just right to obetpy the speed limits and you failed to do so to be honest, he may have been a bit close but it sounds like you are trying to create a defence.
AFCNEAL
QUOTE (iamwhoiam @ Mon, 19 Jan 2015 - 01:17) *
I was asking what I should do next time since I am also not that confident now about the way I handle that situation was right.


Sorry to be blunt, but next time slow earlier (not necessarily sharper) - motorway gantry limits (when in operation) are visible from a considerable distance, assuming observation and to-standard eyesight (I drive the M1 variable limit frequently!) and there is seldom the need to even brake from 70 (ish) vs just lifting off the throttle. When the limit is switched on, there is a 30 second 'grace period' before the cameras become live so no problem there either.
The Rookie
at 50mph 200m takes 9 seconds, if you has slowed smoothly to 30, it would have taken about 11s to cover the distance, so you wouldn't have had to slow very fast at all to do it in time, simply ease off the gas and brake gently (sooner you put the brake lights on the better) to the required speed in plenty of time.
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