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Full Version: PCN - no signage 30 metres before entering bus lane
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mikiesb
Hi

I got a PCN fine only from a local council, have taken photos and checked google maps and there is not a bus /cycle lane sign prior to entering the lane - this by law has to be displayed 30 metres in advance.

The lane also isn't marked Red - although the red colour isn't required by law.

Also the same local council have coloured other bus lanes Red.

how can I appeal, what law do i need to quote?

my case is similar to this but my bus lane was a grand total of approximately 10-20 metres max !!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=92696

Thanks everyone in advance.
Incandescent
As usual post the PCN, suitably redacted, but leave location and dates & times in. If you are claiming inadequate signage, you should appeal on that. They are then obligated to prove the signs are present. Bus lane must have a sign at the start and be delineated by a wide white line. Red tarmac is a bonus not a requirement.

Please also be more forthcoming on the circumstances. 10-20 metres is not really de minimis, so difficult to argue
mikiesb
Hi

I appealed and this has been turned down.

Their response

"reason being is my vehicle was observed in a bus only route and not a bus lane.

The requirements to signage and markings are therefore not the same.

I can confirm the signage is compliant with regulations."

They have said I can appeal via PATAS but if lose the appeal i would have to pay the full fine plus costs?

This is what I sent them : -


"My grounds for appeal are that for there to be a breach of the bus lane order or regulation the restrictions provided for in that bus lane order or regulation must be adequately and/or lawfully signed. Failure adequately and/or lawfully to sign the restrictions means that no breach of the order or regulation has taken place.

The Government Offices for the English Regions have published a document Traffic Management And Parking Guidance For London which states in section 2.99:

“Dilapidated, missing or incorrect traffic signs can only be seen as an indication that the relevant authorities or agencies have little concern for road users.”

My grounds for claiming that the 'Bus Lane' is not adequately and/or lawfully signed are as follows:

3) As per Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 3, Section 15.9:

"Advance indication of a with-flow bus lane
is provided by the sign to diagram 958. Where the
speed limit is 20 mph or 30 mph, the sign should be
sited 30 m in advance of the lead-in taper formed by
the road marking to diagram 1010, with a minimum
clear visibility distance of 45 m. Where the speed limit
is 40 mph, the sign should be sited 45 m in advance
of the taper with a minimum clear visibility distance
of 60 m."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...-chapter-03.pdf

For clarity googlemaps will also confirm this.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3690551,-...#33;6m1!1e1

"

I still don't think this was adequately signed, I was following my tom tom (not that sat nav was an excuse) I simply kept on the left side of the road.

Granted I went into the lane no excuse but it should of been clearly labelled as mentioned above prior to me entering it.

Thoughts if I challenged this and lost?

Thanks
DancingDad
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3690134,-...KITuQtw!2e0

I assume that you went through the left hand lane?

Lets see the PCN pls so we can see what else we have to work with.
mikiesb
Hi yes I stupidly went on the left hand lane. No traffic at the time no bus nothing gained .
Away for the weekend what extra info can I get from the pcn ? Thanks
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