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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Section 36 - level crossing
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
linky
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2014
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Oakham Level Crosing, Melton Road, Oakham, Leicesterhsire
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I think the lights must have started flashing before I saw them, the barrier certainly wasn't moving. I only saw the flashing lights as I looked in my mirror after I had gone through.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 14:24:03 +0000
mrh3369
Any particular question?
linky
What is the likely outcome? I have never had any points or offences of any kind. It was just a case of not seeing it.

Sorry, I meant to put 'lights began flashing AFTER I looked at them', not before
jewels2009
Were lights flashing as you approached or are you saying no, maybe began as I passed stop line then registered in mirror?
linky
I'm not quite sure to be honest. I think it was orange when I saw it, then when I looked in my mirror it was flashing red (but shows I wasn't paying enough attention)
jewels2009
QUOTE (linky @ Thu, 16 Oct 2014 - 16:03) *
I'm not quite sure to be honest. I think it was orange when I saw it, then when I looked in my mirror it was flashing red (but shows I wasn't paying enough attention)


Lighted is to stop unless unsafe to do so. As traffic lights 3 seconds to do so, or offence complete. ( ?) Others will confirm fully.

Complete nip confirming driver details and await fpn .
Jlc
Initially the lower central amber light will illuminate for at least 3 seconds - this means the same as red, i.e. stop, but there is a statutory defence that if you are so close to the stop line you cannot stop safely then you can progress as if no lights are showing at all (i.e. 'green').

When the top pair of reds start flashing alternatively then crossing the stop line is an absolute offence.

I suspect you crossed during the red phase and it is likely they will have photographic evidence of such.

Regardless, as noted above the driver identity is being requested at the moment. It is most likely a fixed penalty or course will be offered but if the offence is 'severe' (e.g. a significant period after red) then it could be a summons. It sounds like they are only considering the red light offence as the BTP can often include careless and dangerous driving if warranted. (Say for crossing with closing barriers)
roythebus
BTP usually go for the FPN and 3 points unless you have gone across after the barriers have started to come down. Most level crossings have CCTV monitors now.

linky
Is it possible for them to raise the offence from the current one? (basically it states disobeying traffic signals - i.e. going through a red light)
The Rookie
Most t,he offences likely require a NIP within 14 days, so unless they send another one it will be on the one you have.

There are a RW caveats to that but from what you say none seem to apply here.
Rallyman72
Ouch - this is one that BTP/Network Rail keep a special eye on as it is a rather busy crossing.

Train speeds there can be up to 75mph. It is used by 80 trains a day and around 10,000 vehicles plus 2000 pedestrians. I think an FPN or driver awareness course will be a good result on this one.

I don't think this one has CCTV as it is next to a signal box [ANORAK MODE] which, by the way, is the prototype for the Airfix plastic kit [/ANORAK MODE].
linky
I don't mind fine, points, etc. I just don't want a ban - is this at all possible given the circumstances?
Jlc
QUOTE (linky @ Thu, 16 Oct 2014 - 18:55) *
I don't mind fine, points, etc. I just don't want a ban - is this at all possible given the circumstances?

A ban isn't on the cards with the current paperwork.
Logician
QUOTE (linky @ Thu, 16 Oct 2014 - 18:55) *
I don't mind fine, points, etc. I just don't want a ban - is this at all possible given the circumstances?


I would say it is extremely unlikely unless you dodged through as the barriers were actually falling.

Glacier2
In some areas the BTP take a rather hard-line attitude by summonsing for these offences instead of offering a fixed penalty.
linky
Sorry, what do you mean by summonsing?
Logician
QUOTE (linky @ Thu, 16 Oct 2014 - 19:30) *
Sorry, what do you mean by summonsing?


Taking you to court.

linky
And what might the outcome of that be?
uk_mike
A higher fine and costs.

Points are the same. No ban unless you already have 9+ points in the last 3 years.
The Rookie
A ban can be imposed for any single motoring offence actually, though it would have to be a very serious red light offence for a straight ban to be issued, so serious that it would be likely a charge of careless or dangerous would also have to have been on the NIP in reality.
jewels2009
Sometimes the over doing the stress , gives a false and misleading severity.

Return the correspondence and await further.

The justice is .

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