Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Dartford Crossing policy change from October 2014
FightBack Forums > Discussion > Government Policy
StaffsSW
I've not found anything on the forum regarding this yet, so apologies if a repost.

In summary, the toll booths are being removed from the Dartford Crossing, drivers will have to pay the charge by phone/text/online etc on the day of use, with some hefty penalties for non-compliance. It looks like it will similar to the TfL Congestion Charge scheme, even down to the logo!

More details are here - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dart-cha...-remote-payment and the legislative details are here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2249/made

Working in the vehicle rental sector, I'm slightly concerned around the Keeper Liability issue. BVRLA have said we can make representation, but as yet no clarity on the terms of this. The penalty charges are quite steep and escalate within 14 days, so paperwork turnaround has to be very slick to minimise cost to the driver. I've lodged a call with the Highways Agency and somebody from their legislative team will be making contact with me in the next 14 days.

Anyone got any thoughts or further input on this?
RD400E
There doesn't appear to be any definite start date of the 'free-flowing' toll system at Dartford crossing.

I have read on various websites that it will be "from October" "In October" or "During October" so which is it?
jewels2009
QUOTE (RD400E @ Sat, 13 Sep 2014 - 18:38) *
There doesn't appear to be any definite start date of the 'free-flowing' toll system at Dartford crossing.

I have read on various websites that it will be "from October" "In October" or "During October" so which is it?


Sometime. wink.gif

what regulations need to be I place for this. It's A major crossing on a public funded road except for toll which was another splice and dice from???. By££££

But dont regs apply as cash is still the payment pound. Plastic isn't cash and too my thinking is another way to coin cash and fines for someting we paid for as was intended to be free or non profit based. Sell it to the French?......honestly look at the revenue it suckz.

We assisted in delivery of their country back. Ki n in hell.

does tbe uk have any totally impartial politicians .





roythebus
The words "Dartford Crossing" and "free flowing" have never been synonymous.
RD400E
QUOTE (roythebus @ Sun, 14 Sep 2014 - 22:58) *
The words "Dartford Crossing" and "free flowing" have never been synonymous.



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
The Rookie
QUOTE (RD400E @ Sat, 13 Sep 2014 - 18:38) *
I have read on various websites that it will be "from October" "In October" or "During October" so which is it?

Did that have a year after it, October 2015, 2025.........
Atomic Tomato
QUOTE (jewels2009 @ Sun, 14 Sep 2014 - 17:50) *
Plastic isn't cash and too my thinking is another way to coin cash and fines for someting we paid for as was intended to be free or non profit based.


This from Highways Agency

QUOTE
Rea­son for the toll

The charg­ing regime at the Dartford-Thurrock river cross­ing came into effect on 1 April 2003. This fol­lowed a study that sug­gested the use of the cross­ing would grow more rapidly if there were no charge, result­ing in an increased neg­a­tive impact on the local com­mu­nity and users of the Crossing.
roythebus
There has been a negative effect on the local community for years with the billions of hours delay at the toll booths. the cost to the local economy has been tremendous; the pollution crippling with thousand of vehicles queuing for hours with their engines running waiting to pay the "nasty foreigners" who own the bridge to collect their money.

Want a bit of fun? Turn up at one of the auto gates with Euros only. This shuts the lanes for about 20 minutes as the officials refuse to take euros or cards. They then have to close every lane while the errant driver is reversed out and across all lanes to the lay-by to pay his toll.
RD400E
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 19 Sep 2014 - 09:44) *
QUOTE (RD400E @ Sat, 13 Sep 2014 - 18:38) *
I have read on various websites that it will be "from October" "In October" or "During October" so which is it?

Did that have a year after it, October 2015, 2025.........



2014 of course rolleyes.gif

But the government website was updated yesterday to say during November, so 2015 might be a possibility yet laugh.gif

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dart-cha...-remote-payment
roythebus
No doubt caused by the vehicles going to do the modifications being stuck in the traffic queues waiting to get to the toll booths:B)
StaffsSW
System is going live on November 30th - as yet no details on penalties, and if there is any keeper liability etc.

I'm expecting to spend the rest of the afternoon on the phone, speaking to muppets and repeating myself plenty.
Barry S
QUOTE (StaffsSW @ Thu, 6 Nov 2014 - 12:54) *
System is going live on November 30th - as yet no details on penalties, and if there is any keeper liability etc.


Penalties are detailed in The A282 Trunk Road (Dartford-Thurrock Charging Scheme) Order 2013. Keeper liability and related matters are dealt with in The Road User Charging Schemes (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2013.

Failure to pay by midnight the day after using the crossing incurs a £70 penalty, reduced to £35 if paid within 14 days, increased to £105 if a charge certificate is issued.

Clamping and towing ARE authorised! £70 for clamp removal (plus the penalty), £200 if towed, £40 per day (or part thereof) storage and £70 if the vehicle is disposed of.

Oh...And the initial scheme runs until 30th September 2020.
Gan
How will a motorist approaching the crossing during a changeover period know if he has to pay or not ?

Will the approach roads come to a halt at 9.58 every night as drivers go slowly while they're waiting to save their £2-50 ?

Saw an interesting comment today that, although the crossing was paid off in 2003, the Government kept the toll to restrict demand
What realistic alternatives are there ?
Unzippy
QUOTE (Gan @ Fri, 7 Nov 2014 - 10:11) *
What realistic alternatives are there ?



Blackwall tunnel? biggrin.gif
nomadros
I've started using the Blackwall Tunnel all the time until this will they/won't they mess is sorted. Also, I would have thought they could have dropped the charge after this is implimented as the staff costs, booth costs and general chaos should be vastly reduced. There must be some serious savings to be made now they won't have to store under the plaza all those £1 coins and haul them up from the crossing (do they use artics or boats I wonder) to the Bank of England or wherever they go. That must be some serious coin tonnage under that plaza at the end of every day.
Gan
What options are available for drivers, and there must be some, that don't have a credit card or the phone/internet access to pay with it
Fredd
QUOTE (Gan @ Fri, 7 Nov 2014 - 15:09) *
What options are available for drivers, and there must be some, that don't have a credit card or the phone/internet access to pay with it


You don't seriously think that they'd have neglected to set in place the means to extract your cash by any method possible?

QUOTE
Alternatively once Dart Charge is in place you will be able to make one-off payments in advance or by midnight the day after crossing:

online at www.gov.uk/dart-charge
over the phone by calling: 0300 300 0120
via a payzone retail outlet
by post (in advance only): Dart Charge Customer Services PO Box 842 Leeds LS1 9QF
Gan
Is it too sensible to have payzone outlets at services ?
Barry S
QUOTE (Gan @ Fri, 7 Nov 2014 - 16:13) *
Is it too sensible to have payzone outlets at services ?


Far too sensible. By my reckoning, the nearest one on the Essex side is a Total petrol station in London Road, West Thurrock, near J31, and on the Kent side it's Riverview Newsagents near J1A.
nomadros
Given the amount of foreign traffic that uses the crossing do you think any them will bother to pay?
Incandescent
QUOTE (nomadros @ Sat, 8 Nov 2014 - 15:36) *
Given the amount of foreign traffic that uses the crossing do you think any them will bother to pay?

I can't see it myself. Maybe that's why the tolls are so high to make the British pay for all those foreign drivers. No point in chasing up a Bulgarian lorry driver.
roythebus
A big snag cropped up tonight at a local bus and coach operators' meeting. ?One of the large operators wanted to buy a "season ticket" for their coaches to use the Dartford Crossing. It transpires you can only get a fleet operators ticket if you are a limited company, or an individual, but then with no more than 2 cars!

So my friend has a partnership with more than 20 coaches and no way to pay the discounted rate for using the crossing. We wondered how many partnerships and LLPs there are who are just about to have a nasty surprise.
Steve_999
Not sure about that Roy, at least for a "private individual" prepay account.

I just set one up and put three vehicles on it, and it was asking for details of a fourth one! And you get each (class B) crossing for £1.67 instead of £2.50 - what a bargain!!
roythebus
I may be wrong on the "car" pre-pay account, I was more interested in the other bits of the conversation.
Itchy Bootmore
Wouldn't it be really much more interesting if EVERYONE just decided NOT to pay anything at all. After all, the crossing is paid for already - by "us" (general tax paying populace). Too bad if someone plonked some toll booths on it deciding they were going to make a profit....... one of the risks you run as a 'bizznizzzzzz'..... tongue.gif

Just refuse to play the game!? laugh.gif
StaffsSW
Just had 6 of these land on my desk this afternoon, all dated 29 or 30 December. They also include a warning letter that rather kindly points out that as it is a new system in place, they will accept a £2.50 payment if paid within 14 days of the letter.

As a rental company we are able to make representation, although there is no mention of the hire period scenario that exists with the congestion charge - if a rental is more than 6 months then no representation is accepted, and the keeper has to pay.

After a long conversation on the phone, the call centre team are still a little in the dark about the exact process of representation, but they did confirm that they have an internal appeals system, as well as the independent TPT service.

I think I'm going to have to nurture this process until we can establish how the system works properly.


nomadros
I came through there this morning and what a mess. What is the point of doing this electronically when you still have to stop at a barrier? Well, there are barriers northbound. Also with all the signage and bollards and wibbly wobbly bits, I didn't see a single sign saying pay. In fact as the overhead "pay" signage has been sprayed out, if you didn't know you had to pay, you'd never think about it. Anyway,this thread has reminded me to pay.
matt285
I have to agree with what nomadros says - I used this twice earlier this week (once northbound through the tunnels once southbound over the bridge) and it is a little bit confusing.

There are lots of signs ahead of the crossing explaining you that you have to pay and you can do so by midnight the day after - but I don't think it actually told you anywhere how much to pay? So this is the first problem I have with this.

Then there are still barriers for the tunnels, but none for the bridge - how do I know I have to pay for both?

I then went to the website gov.uk to pay - you cannot check how many crossings you need to pay for, you can only set this number yourself. So unless you remember them all then you may need to pay more just to be on the safe side? Also, if my number plate was obscured when using the bridge I paid for one crossing too many.

Oh and then you don't get a VAT receipt, only some sort of fake "payslip".

All in all it's fairly low key I have to say, particularly when compared to the M6 Toll or the Severn Crossing. But then those are run privately so I guess this explains it.
trubster
My account hasn't been debited for a few crossings, I think this is the result of following a lorry a little bit too closely biggrin.gif

That is the problem with ANPR Systems and the more people that realize this, the more people that will be tailgating
Lodesman
When my Dart Tag account was transferred to a new Dart Charge account I put six cars on to it (our two, our two son's two cars) and it works perfectly.

When my credit drops below £10, a direct debit puts another £10 on to my account from my bank.

It works a treat at £1.67 instead of £2.50 a time.

None of us has to bother about remembering to pay.
mickR
QUOTE (Lodesman @ Mon, 26 Jan 2015 - 17:07) *
When my Dart Tag account was transferred to a new Dart Charge account I put six cars on to it (our two, our two son's two cars) and it works perfectly.

When my credit drops below £10, a direct debit puts another £10 on to my account from my bank.

It works a treat at £1.67 instead of £2.50 a time.

None of us has to bother about remembering to pay.


And of course... you won't get charged for the ones the camera doesn't see wink.gif
matt285
fair points but I don't live close enough to use it regularly so I don't see the point in having an account... also my company pays wink.gif
Lodesman
QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 26 Jan 2015 - 17:45) *
QUOTE (Lodesman @ Mon, 26 Jan 2015 - 17:07) *
When my Dart Tag account was transferred to a new Dart Charge account I put six cars on to it (our two, our two son's two cars) and it works perfectly.

When my credit drops below £10, a direct debit puts another £10 on to my account from my bank.

It works a treat at £1.67 instead of £2.50 a time.

None of us has to bother about remembering to pay.


And of course... you won't get charged for the ones the camera doesn't see wink.gif


Bonus

QUOTE (matt285 @ Mon, 26 Jan 2015 - 22:06) *
fair points but I don't live close enough to use it regularly so I don't see the point in having an account... also my company pays wink.gif


I also don't live close to the tunnel/bridge and my family live even further away but, for the sake of a tenner..............?

We'll only use it 4-5 times a year but it is just less hassle.
Ozbert
Having absent-mindedly failed to pay in time for using the Dartford Crossing on Boxing Day, I've been expecting a PCN through my letterbox for the last month. Nothing has come yet, so I've just read through the legislation covering the charging scheme.

Unless I've missed it, there doesn't appear to be any time limit specified for the serving of a PCN.

Can any sharper eyes than mine spot one?

Johnxxx
QUOTE (Lodesman @ Tue, 27 Jan 2015 - 07:34) *
I also don't live close to the tunnel/bridge and my family live even further away but, for the sake of a tenner..............?


Strictly speaking - it doesn't "cost" a tenner. The £10 is a minimum balance on the account. If / when you close the account they will refund the outstanding balance. Not like the Oyster Card where they really do charge you a tenner in the first place and you'll never get it back.
Lodesman
Of course I understand that my cash is safe there, and it is only a small amount anyway.

I'm not sure what I should do with my old Dart Tag !
StaffsSW
Further update on this - Dart are looking at our representation, however as we have a multi-page contract rather than a single page rental agreement, this has confused them somewhat, and I am still closely monitoring the process.

But something more curious has occured...

One of my vehicles is on a long term lease to another rental company, and they have contacted me with a strange situation.
One of their own vehicles incurred a penalty whilst on a weekend hire. They didn't know about this until a month later, by which time it had been put on a 3 month rent to another person. This other person entered it on to their DART account, and immediately the outstanding penalty charge was deducted from their account.

Needless to say this hasn't gone down well with the hirer, but an interesting challenge for rental companies to deal with!
Johnxxx
It's obviously another government sponsored shambles. Did anyone ever answer the questions of how they will extract money from foreign drivers / vehicles or cope with vehicles "hidden" by other vehicles ? I notice that they've got big flashing signs to ask / tell drivers to slow down and keep their distance - presumably so that the cameras will work properly.

They also don't call it a "toll" anymore - it's a "Congestion Charge" but the elimination of toll booths has actually cut congestion. Think how smooth it would be if they eliminated the charge all together and just let all lanes sail through at 70mph all the time - just like escaping from Wales on the M4.
StaffsSW
I understand that the foreign registered vehicles are being farmed out to EPC Plc, who will send a series fo letters with increasing amounts of red text, before it is passed to DRP who will do the same.

The shambles continues - when you pay for the crossing, there is no requirement to enter a date or time. If you've recently bought, or hired, a vehicle, you could find yourself paying for a previously unpaid crossing....

This is happening a LOT in the rental industry at the moment. Lots of pee'd off hirers receiving charges when they have a receipt for the same day the charge refers to. Helpfully, when a previous crossing is paid, the DART system has no way of retrieving the details.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.