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fiscalfox
Hello again!

I wonder if anyone can kindly offer some advice with a recent ticket I picked up in a backroad in Kensignton and Chelsea?

I parked my car in a residential area: 112 Princedale Road (Google link: http://tinyurl.com/oqyzf2k ). The road on both sides was fairly empty and finding a space wasn't hard. As I got out of my drivers side of my car I saw a sign for the ticket machine on wall across the road (see pic).

The machine must have been about 30ft from my car. Over the course of four hours I duly paid £8.80 (ow!) to park and had the tickets displayed on my dash. They second ticket expired at 18:02.

Click to view attachment

At 18.00 I came back to find a ticket on my car, issued at 17.59 (no warden in site) sad.gif sleep.gif

It appears I have been charged for using a Pay and Display ticket in a permit bay. This was obv not intentional.

I've added a picture of my car and how it was positioned. I've also added a picture of the layout of the road (from Google maps) that shows how I was parked.

I found (#facepalm) that on my side of the road there were indeed a sign attached to a post that signified Resident Parking. However, this wasn't clear because it faced out directly onto the road by the kerbside. You can't see it unless you're actually standing in the carriageway. And they are impossible to see from the path because they face out.

I've now been landed with £65 fine (plus the £9 I seemingly wasted on my ticket).

Here is the PCN:


Can anyone offer some suggestions for appealing this or any other action? It would be greatly and sincerely appreciated.
DancingDad
Basically you are bang to rights
Restrictions apply to the side of the road they are on and signs face the carriageway.
Appeal within the 14 days to preserve the discount.
An apology for a mistake, that you believed it was a p&d bay and paid. Will they apply discretion in this instance?
Mad Mick V
Try the Code 16/19 gambit, some members don't like this but since you are in the discount period it might be worth a shot.

Since you paid and displayed you might argue that a Code 19 (a lower penalty charge) is more appropriate and perhaps you have been issued with an incorrect contravention.

Code 19 Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone either displaying an invalid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time.

In the circumstances can the Council exercise its discretion and cancel the ticket?

Mick
Incandescent
Yes, bang-to-rights, so only an appeal based on using their discretion is really possible. So many motorist seem to think that if they see a ticket machine that this means where they have parked is OK. As advised, each side of the street is always separate for restrictions, although in a lot of places they happen to be the same, but it is the sign that counts, not the ticket machine.
fiscalfox
Thank for your advice. I'll make an appeal and then write back and let you know how it goes.
DancingDad
Include copies of your P&D tickets to prove you paid.
Also do ask them to explain why high level not low as per Mick's point.
Keep the tone none confrontational, you are asking for a favour
Mad Mick V
I've had a look at the GSV that the OP noted and I must say the signage on that part of the street all relates to residents only or permits. Whilst I can see a ticket machine I cannot see signage which corresponds to a 660.7 diagram here:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/schedule/2/made

In other words "Pay at the Machine"

GSV will be out of date but that signage appears deficient.

Signs must not confuse or mislead as per:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/24...ulation/18/made

Mick
fiscalfox
Hello! I wrote my appeal and sent in photos showing how rubbish the signage was. I also pointed out I was fined under the wrong code. I got a reply from the Kensington and Chelsea, and they have refused to cancel the original ticket and fine bracket, stating their reasons in the letter below.

Do I have a leg to stand on or should I just pay? Feel really gutted as I paid out for parking tickets too sad.gif

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Mad Mick V
They have re-offered the discount so you have a decision to make.

I believe there is fettered discretion in the Council's understanding of the Code 12 determination and its seriousness. It was helpful of them to mention the 2007 decision which rather pins them.

Here's some background (my bold):-

London Councils Transport and Environment Committee agreed at their meeting on 8 December 2006 to set the level of parking penalties depending on whether the parking contraventions was deemed to be more serious or less serious (according to the following defined list of contravention codes).

In Appendix 1, Codes 15 and 19 are defined as:
Code 15: Parked in a residents’ parking space without clearly displaying a valid residents’ parking permit
Code 19: Parked in a parking place without clearly displaying the required permit or pay and display ticket

Code 15 is currently set at the higher penalty level (e.g. £120 for Band A) and Code 19 is set at the lower penalty level (e.g. £80 for Band A).

At the December TEC meeting, there was discussion regarding which category contraventions in residents’ bays (Code 15) and shared bays (Code 19) should be placed. The London Borough of Islington wished to see Code 15 in the lower penalty category as they were concerned that there was no distinction between visitors to residents and other people, who were subject to the higher penalty charge for contraventions in residents’ bays. The London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham wished to see shared bays in the higher category as most of their residents permits were used in shared bays.

It was agreed that the Director of Transport, Environment and Planning would work with the London Borough of Islington and the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham to modify the definitions of the codes used.

Proposed Solution

Both boroughs concerns can be addressed if the residents bays and shared use bays codes were merged but a distinction made between people who do not have any type of permit or ticket and those who have bought a ticket or have a visitor’s permit but have overstayed on the time paid or scratched off the wrong date.

A possible solution would be to amend both Code 15 (residents bay) and Code 19 (shared use bays), however Code 15 is used in many of the circa 150 authorities outside London who operate Decriminalised Parking Enforcement (and who use London Councils’ contravention code list), and amending Code 15 would mean that all these authorities would need to update their systems etc.

It is therefore suggested that a new code (Code 12) be added to allow for people who have neither a visitors (or other) permit nor a pay and display ticket but are parked in a residents’ or shared use bay and Code 19 be amended slightly as given below :
add new Code 12: parked in a residents' or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place (for use in London only)
amend Code 19 to: parked in a residents' or shared use parking place displaying an invalid permit, an invalid voucher or an invalid pay & display ticket.

In addition, Code 15 could no longer be used in London (to avoid duplicating the same contravention in two different penalty bands).

Code 12 would be used for situations where there was no permit or pay and display ticket displayed and would attract the higher penalty charge. Code 19 would be used for situations where there was a permit or pay and display ticket displayed but time had expired or the permit was incorrectly completed etc. and would attract the lower penalty charge.
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