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Metatrade
Hello Pepipoo members.

After receiving a PCN for a contravention in Tower Hamlets Old Montague St E1, I have composed this appeal. I was parked for about 15 mins and there was no traffic warden visible so no ticket issued at the time. The PCN has stills taken from a CCTV camera.

The appeal explains all and I would like to ask members if I have overlooked anything and if I should add / remove anything for a satisfactory outcome.


Dear Sir / Madam,

I wish to appeal the above PCN issued by CCTV on the following grounds:

The vehicle had come to a stop in Old Montague St for a short period of time because it had stalled and broken down. During attempting and failing to restart the engine it was observed that the engine temperature began to rise suddenly and approach the red. The vehicle had become immobilized due to the engine over heating. There were no warning lights or any other indication that there was a problem prior to the engine stalling.

After a short while when the engine had cooled, The vehicle was able to be restarted and driven a short distance to a location where it was possible replenish the water supply.
Upon replenishing the water supply it was observed that water was leaking from the engine and as it would have been impossible to continue the long distance journey back to Derby with the vehicle in that state, a local mobile breakdown repair mechanic was called out to investigate the cause of the water leak and effect a repair. an invoice for the work carried out at that time can be supplied as evidence.

The oil and water levels on the vehicle were checked only 30 minutes prior to the breakdown before embarking on the long distance journey from London to Derby and they were found to be adequate.

I would ask that you view all of the CCTV video evidence in its entirety, It can be observed that while the vehicle was immobilized momentarily in Old Montague St, at no time did the driver or any passenger exit or enter the vehicle. The vehicle was never left unattended and at no time was the vehicle loading or unloading. There was no other reason and nothing to gain by stopping in Old Montague St other than the reasons that have been described above.

Unfortunately, during the short time that the vehicle was immobilized in Old Montague St, there was no traffic warden available to explain the breakdown/overheating situation to. I would also like to point out that no warning signs are in place at this location stating that CCTV surveillance is being carried out.

Unfortunately even when due care has been taken, breakdowns do occur and they are beyond our control. In light of these unforeseen and mitigating circumstances resulting in the vehicle becoming immobilized, I would ask you to kindly cancel this parking ticket.

If you reject this appeal please I would ask you to inform me of where and how I could view the CCTV footage and lodge an appeal with an independent adjudicator local to me in Derby or via telephone. I would also ask you to send with your response a copy of the relevant traffic order and proof that the camera in use is an approved device. Please consider this a request under the freedom of information act.

I would also ask that you address all of the points in my appeal and acknowledge receipt of this email.

Yours faithfully,

The Pied Piper


Should I send the garage repair invoice with this first appeal ?

If this first appeal fails, Do I get the option of another appeal and should I wait to send the invoice then ?

Would it be better to appeal to their good nature in the first appeal and then indicate that I would be willing to go to an independent adjudicator if the second appeal failed ?

Is it worth mentioning that no warning signs are in place at this location stating that CCTV is in operation ?

Thoughts ? Chances ?

Thanks
londonicon
definatley send COPY of invoice for repair
hcandersen
We must see the whole PCN, at present we don't even know what the contravention is and whether your argument is relevant. Leave in all dates.
As regards your argument, if it relates to a waiting restriction then subject to what I've posted below I think it's probably the best you can present as it covers all bases. I think you know the points which are relevant which is why they're included e.g. no previous history of this fault etc. Subject to this being a waiting contravention, there's one point which you've not addressed which is why you stopped where you did. You've written 'the vehicle had come to a stop'. So, was it under the driver's control or not? If the engine stopped then say so, in other words all the driver did was to guide the vehicle to the nearest safe location, albeit that a waiting restriction was in place. Alternatively, the driver made a conscious decision to stop the vehicle based on the information conveyed by their instruments - I rule out water vapour coming from under the bonnet because if this applied someone would have got out of the vehicle and you've posted that no-one left the car. So, why there and not where there isn't a waiting restriction, perhaps even in another road?




Metatrade
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 22 Aug 2014 - 09:51) *
We must see the whole PCN, at present we don't even know what the contravention is and whether your argument is relevant. Leave in all dates.
As regards your argument, if it relates to a waiting restriction then subject to what I've posted below I think it's probably the best you can present as it covers all bases. I think you know the points which are relevant which is why they're included e.g. no previous history of this fault etc. Subject to this being a waiting contravention, there's one point which you've not addressed which is why you stopped where you did. You've written 'the vehicle had come to a stop'. So, was it under the driver's control or not? If the engine stopped then say so, in other words all the driver did was to guide the vehicle to the nearest safe location, albeit that a waiting restriction was in place. Alternatively, the driver made a conscious decision to stop the vehicle based on the information conveyed by their instruments - I rule out water vapour coming from under the bonnet because if this applied someone would have got out of the vehicle and you've posted that no-one left the car. So, why there and not where there isn't a waiting restriction, perhaps even in another road?


Thank you for your response HCAndersen,

You have made some very good points.

I have now amended the appeal and clarified the reason for "stopping" there - Please see amended appeal. I have also copied the PCN.

Other points:

I am still waiting for the invoice from the mechanic so unable to supply it to the council at this time - If I submit this first appeal without the invoice, will I be given the opportunity to submit the invoice as evidence later ?

There was no water vapour visible and the driver never exited the car for a moment. The engine is in the rear of the vehicle and only accessible through removing some acces ports in the boot. I suspest that any water vapours may have been from underneath the car.



Dear Sir / Madam,

I wish to appeal the above PCN issued by CCTV on the following grounds:

The vehicle was travelling along Old Montague St when the engine stalled and stopped turning over. The vehicle was still in forward motion when this occured but because of the sudden loss of engine power it was not possible to continue driving and the only option available was to steer the vehicle away from the middle of the road to the nearest safe location on Old Montague St.

During attempting and failing to restart the engine it was observed that the engine temperature began to rise suddenly and approach the red. The vehicle had become immobilized due to the engine over heating. There were no warning lights or any other indication that there was a problem prior to the engine stalling.

After a short while when the engine had cooled, The vehicle was able to be restarted and driven a short distance to a location where it was possible replenish the water supply.
Upon replenishing the water supply it was observed that water was leaking from the engine and as it would have been impossible to continue the long distance journey back to Derby with the vehicle in this state, a local mobile breakdown repair mechanic was called out to investigate the cause of the water leak and effect a repair. an invoice for the work carried out at that time can be supplied as evidence.

The oil and water levels on the vehicle were checked only 30 minutes prior to the breakdown before embarking on the long distance journey from London to Derby and they were found to be adequate.
I would ask that you view all of the CCTV video evidence in its entirety, It can be observed that while the vehicle was immobilized momentarily in Old Montague St, at no time did the driver or any passenger exit or enter the vehicle. The vehicle was never left unattended and at no time was the vehicle loading or unloading. From viewing th CCTV video it can also be observed that there was no other reason and nothing to gain by stopping in Old Montague St other than the reasons that have been described above.

Unfortunately, during the short time that the vehicle was immobilized in Old Montague St, there was no traffic warden available to explain the breakdown/overheating situation to. I would also like to point out that no warning signs are in place at this location stating that CCTV surveillance is being carried out.

Unfortunately even when due care and attention is taken, breakdowns do occur and they are beyond our control. In light of these unforeseen and mitigating circumstances resulting in the vehicle becoming immobilized, I would ask you to kindly cancel this parking ticket.

If you reject this appeal please I would ask you to inform me of where and how I could view the CCTV footage and lodge an appeal with an independent adjudicator local to me in Derby or via telephone. I would also ask you to send with your response a copy of the relevant traffic order and proof that the camera in use is an approved device. Please consider this a request under the freedom of information act.

I would also ask that you address all of the points in my appeal and acknowledge receipt of this email.

Yours faithfully,


Click to view attachment
DancingDad
I would reword the last bit a little.

On the back of the PCN there should be something that advises you how to view the video, this is one area where councils seem to have a problem following the regulations so be good to see it and check for you.

Re the last paragraph, you are virtually telling them that you are not prepared to return to London to either view the evidence or attend a hearing with the adjudicators, which sort of implies you will cave in. Councils will take advantage of that.

I'd ask for whatever still photos they believe establish the contravention to be sent, after all you are not arguing the stop or it seems the prohibition so unless you think the video may show something worthwhile, I'd let that ride.
Or be more positive and request a copy of the video to be sent to you.

On the adjudicator side, PATAS (London lot) do not accept telephone hearings and only have personal hearings in London. Forms to appeal must be sent if council reject your challenge so I'd not mention or make a solid statement that you will appeal to PATAS should they reject.
homeruk
The only thing im struggling with is why didn't you check the coolant level when you stalled and pulled over?

This would of confirmed your diagnosis and told you , you didn't hopefully need breakdown.

Also engines cool down quicker with the bonnet/boot open.

I would leave put the part about tro and approved device sounds like your going on a fishing trip and would probably get their backs up rather than have any sympathy for your predictment.
Metatrade
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 22 Aug 2014 - 22:47) *
I would reword the last bit a little.

On the back of the PCN there should be something that advises you how to view the video, this is one area where councils seem to have a problem following the regulations so be good to see it and check for you.

Re the last paragraph, you are virtually telling them that you are not prepared to return to London to either view the evidence or attend a hearing with the adjudicators, which sort of implies you will cave in. Councils will take advantage of that.

I'd ask for whatever still photos they believe establish the contravention to be sent, after all you are not arguing the stop or it seems the prohibition so unless you think the video may show something worthwhile, I'd let that ride.
Or be more positive and request a copy of the video to be sent to you.

On the adjudicator side, PATAS (London lot) do not accept telephone hearings and only have personal hearings in London. Forms to appeal must be sent if council reject your challenge so I'd not mention or make a solid statement that you will appeal to PATAS should they reject.



They can send pictures but video must be viewed in one of their offices.

Your point about them thinking that I will cave in did cross my mind - I have altered the last 2 paragraphs accordingly.

As I am still waiting for the invoice from the mechanic, I wanted to send this appeal without the invoice before the 50% reduction time expiry. Could I later send the invoice as additional evidence to backup this first appeal ?
If this first appeal is rejected, will I be given an opportunity for a second appeal ? or must the next step be with an independent adjudicator ?

Which option should I tick with my first appeal ?
1. THE CONTRAVENTION DID NOT OCCUR ? or 2. ANY OTHER COMPELLING REASONS YOU WISH TO RAISE ?

Something that I have noticed in the camera images is that you can see a vehicle parked but you cannot see any double yellow lines or any signs to state that parking restictions are in force - Is this a good thing for my case ?

Last 2 paragraphs of Appeal

I would ask that you address all of the points in my appeal and acknowledge receipt of this email. I would also ask that you send to my address the still images that you believe establish the contravention occured.

If you reject this appeal I would ask that you send with your response a copy of the relevant traffic order and proof that the camera in use is an approved device. Please consider this a request under the freedom of information act.
DancingDad
Ideally you want to include the invoice but better to beat the deadline then wait on it. Can't the mechanic email something to you or was it cash in hand and now he's not playing ?
If they consider properly, they will either allow the challenge or ask for further proof, like the receipt so keep chasing it.

Tick both Contravention did not occur.
Situation was an emergency and out of your control

And other compelling reasons.
For exactly the same reason.

Don't invoke freedom of information, you have a right to ask for evidence and they should provide, if they don't we can use that against them.
Metatrade
Thanks DancingDad,

The mechanics away on holiday at the moment but I'm sure he will sort it out at the end of next week when he's back.
I dont know how the system works, It appears that it takes quite some time to get a response from an appeal before which I will have the invoice in my hand.

Once I have sent the appeal in - Is it possible to provide supporting information before it has been considered ?

Because it is not possible to see if any contraventions occured in the images (No double yellows or signage) I have amended the appeal and removed the street name. I honestly dont know which street it was as I didnt make a note.

I am just wondering if the onus is upon them to prove that the contravention occured in the street they say. Looking at the pictures, they could have been taken anywhere although they do have the location information from the camera - Do you think that a good move or should I stick with the original ?


Dear Sir / Madam,

I wish to appeal the above PCN issued by CCTV on the following grounds:

The vehicle was travelling along a London street (A note was note made of the street name) when the vehicle stalled and the engine stopped turning over. The vehicle was still in forward motion when this occured but because of the sudden loss of engine power it was not possible to continue driving and the only option available was to steer the vehicle away from the middle of the street to the nearest safe location.

During attempting and failing to restart the engine it was observed that the engine temperature began to rise suddenly and approach the red. The vehicle had become immobilized due to the engine over heating. There were no warning lights or any other indication that there was a problem prior to the engine stalling.

After a short while when the engine had cooled, The vehicle was able to be restarted and driven a short distance to a location where it was possible replenish the water supply.

Upon replenishing the water supply it was noticed that water was leaking from the engine and as it would have been impossible to continue the long distance journey back to Derby with the vehicle in this state, a local mobile breakdown repair mechanic was called out to investigate the cause of the water leak and effect a repair. an invoice for the work carried out at that time can be supplied as evidence.

The oil and water levels on the vehicle were checked only 30 minutes prior to the breakdown before embarking on the long distance journey from London to Derby and they were found to be adequate.

I would ask that you view all of the CCTV video evidence in its entirety, It can be observed that while the vehicle was immobilized momentarily, at no time did the driver or any passenger exit or enter the vehicle. The vehicle was never left unattended and at no time was the vehicle loading or unloading. During the short time that the vehicle was immobilized was there no traffic warden available to explain the breakdown/overheating situation to.

From viewing the CCTV video it can also be observed that there was no other reason and nothing to gain by stopping in this location other than the reasons that have been described above.

In light of these unforeseen and mitigating circumstances resulting in the vehicle becoming immobilized, I would ask you to kindly cancel this parking ticket.

I would ask that you address all of the points in my appeal and acknowledge receipt of this email. I would also ask that you send to my address the still images that you believe establish the contravention occured.

If you reject this appeal I would ask that you send with your response a copy of the relevant traffic order and proof that the camera in use is an approved device. Please consider this a request under the freedom of information act.

Yours faithfully,
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