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adamf83
Today I received a notice of rejection from Merton council in reference to a PCN Code 31J. The basis of my appeal with that I was about to make my move towards the bus lane (which was clear and not in operation at the time) when a speeding taxi came down the left hand side and if I had of made the move, I would have likely caused an accident, therefore ended up stopping in the yellow box.

They rejected this, here is the NOR.




Here is some of the photo evidence:





They note on the NOR that my vehicle is not signalling, but they can't see the left hand side indicator from the photos or CCTV and whilst it is true that the taxi doesn't stop in the bus lane (from memory of viewing the CCTV) I was already in the box when it passed, having had to stop.

My understanding is that the contravention occurs if the presence of stationary vehicles causes me to stop in the box, but as the bus lane was clear when I entered the box and had it not been for the taxi I would have moved to the bus lane. Where do I stand on choosing not to move after the taxi had gone?


Any thoughts or advice welcome.
adamf83
bump... anyone?
Chaseman
The short answer is that having had a formal appeal rejected, the fine cannot go up if you appeal to PATAS so all you are risking is the time and effort to do so. There's a PATAS case that largely destroys the contention that if one stops in a YBJ when an exit lane is free, then one has not stopped due to the presence of stationary traffic and hence no offence has been committed. As Merton are effectively saying, if there was an exit lane you could have used, then why didn't you? You may have grounds for appeal on de minimis - I presume you have seen the CCTV. Did you note how long you were stopped for? All we can see from the stills is that you were stationary for 1 second. It is generally accepted that 6 seconds or less is de minimis and you will likely get off at PATAS. Moreover, does the CCTV show you both entering and exiting the YBJ? I won a case at PATAS recently because the CCTV recording ended before I had exited the YBJ.
adamf83
I'm still within the re-offered discount period until 6th August, so it's not gone up yet, but yes, after that..

I found this case 2140054563 which relates to the same YBJ and goes on to say that it was the actions of another driver that caused him to stop in the YBJ. The taxi seen the image 2 flew down the left hand side of me just as I enter the box. It's not visible from the stills, but is on the CCTV.

Yes, I've seen the CCTV and was stopped for 9 seconds, too long for de minimis.

It does show me entering and exiting the box. I picked out the points about indicator and the fact that in the NOR they say I am not indicating when they can't see the indicator. Does that carry any weight?
DancingDad
In the NOR they seemed to have considered whatever you said as they have put some detail re the taxi into the rejection.
Then they go on to say "...as you have chosen to wait in the box a contravention occurred.." Tosh and Balderdash, wait there all day and you do not break the regulations on Yellow Boxes.

Having said that, Moving into the bus lane but blocked by taxi ?
Does the video show you moving after the taxi goes past ??

If yes, then you can argue with some merit that you stopped due to a moving vehicle.
If no, doubtful that an adjudicator would agree.
adamf83
No, it doesn't show me moving after the taxi goes past....
qafqa
What is the time of the alleged offence as printed on
the original PCN?

Have you read the YBJ Key Cases at PATAS, from them
you can get an impression of the type of appeals that
are now futile.
adamf83
On the PCN, 20:31. I'm guessing seconds don't come into play here, the actual stop time was 20:31:04

I have looked at the key cases yes.
qafqa
According to your timing the alleged offence took place at 20:31:04.
Take a look at what astralite has to say about the Time in post #21 then read the two adjudications and the additional cases the adjudicator
was directed to by Mr Solomon.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=91425&st=0
http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/StatReg/
adamf83
Thanks... So does the PCN have to show the exact time, to the second, which I believe to be 20:31:04 (I'd have to double check the CCTV again) and is 4 seconds enough difference between the CCTV and what is on the PCN?
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