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Resurrection
Evening all,

I'm in court in the morning accused of failing to furnish information about who was driving my vehicle back in January 2014. I got a letter from Greater Manchester Police and responded accepting responsibility. I heard nothing else until this court letter appeared. From what it says, i have apparently not only ignored the letter I returned in a pre paid envelope, I have apparently also ignored a follow up.

What to do? Is this like the DVLA where my responsibility is done once I post back the information required. I'm more than happy to fess up to speeding as it was me.

Help appreciated.
peterguk
Is a speeding charge also on the summons?

Did you get proof of posting when you returned the S.172?

Logician
You've left it a little late to seek advice!

Did you simply name yourself as the driver or did you use some form of words such as "accepting responsibility"?

Are you charged with the speeding as well failure to furnish information? If so get to court early, ask to have pointed out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic, approach him/her and offer to plead G to speeding if the s.172 charge is dropped. This is almost always successful.

If you are just charged with s.172, it comes down to how credible you are, and what evidence you can produce that you sent back the form. (which for most people is none)
scottishpoet
Have you been summonsed just for the fail to furnish or for the speeding too?

If both then you may have an option if you get to court early to meet the prosecution team and agree to go guilty on the speeding if they agree to drop the FTF

Otherwise, what proof do you have you posted the documents? Did you keep a copy of the documents? If you did not get a reminder do you have a history of problems getting your mail and have you reported it?
Gan
Posting the question at 23.49 the night before a hearing and checking out of the forum at 23.53 isn't helpful if the OP wants anything more than "get there early and try for a deal"
Resurrection
I'm only being accused of FTF at the moment. I sent it back in the envelope it came in which was pre paid therefore no proof of postage. Schoolboy error not copying it etc, however I fessed up on the form
Kickaha
Unfortunately for you the speeding charge is now off the table, so you need to defend the FTFcharge.

All you can do is go suited and booted and present your case as credibly as you can. It will not be easy to get a good result out of this, good luck and let us know the outcome.
Resurrection
It turns out that i'm a massive clown.

Left the house nice and early to get to court and see the prosecutor, got halfway to town and had a blowout on the car. Cue me phoning the AA and yada yada. Finally get the court on the phone to beg for it to be moved to later today or any other day only to be told its tomorrow morning Embarassed

You think then that my defence shouldn't be just give me the original 3 points, **** right off as I fulfilled my end when I posted it back by Royal Mail, the same way you posted it?
Jlc
QUOTE (Resurrection @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 16:50) *
You think then that my defence shouldn't be just give me the original 3 points, **** right off as I fulfilled my end when I posted it back by Royal Mail, the same way you posted it?

The original 3 points is not a factor here. Only the FtF is on the table (6 points). Without having any evidence of the contents and posting of the response then it's your credibility that will count.

I wouldn't put your defence quite in the terms you describe above. Remember you are trying to convince the bench that your reply didn't arrive and their reminder didn't either - possible but unlikely.
gilan02
What did you wriite when you accepted responsibility?
sgtdixie
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 16:57) *
Remember you are trying to convince the bench that your reply didn't arrive and their reminder didn't either - possible but unlikely.

This is the bit you will struggle with. They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder so at that point you should have known you had still to name the driver. Unfortunately there are different rules for them sending the request and you sending your reply.
gilan02
QUOTE
They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder

Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification?
sgtdixie
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:43) *
QUOTE
They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder

Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification?

It could be, but amounts to the same thing.
gilan02
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:49) *
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:43) *
QUOTE
They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder

Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification?

It could be, but amounts to the same thing.

If they say they did not receive the reply then it will be down to the OP's credibility. If they have a reply saying "I can't remember who was driving so assume it was me" then I think it is going to be more of a problem.
sgtdixie
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:49) *
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:43) *
QUOTE
They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder

Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification?

It could be, but amounts to the same thing.

If they say they did not receive the reply then it will be down to the OP's credibility. If they have a reply saying "I can't remember who was driving so assume it was me" then I think it is going to be more of a problem.

I agree his credibility is the issue, it's just how he answers the inevitable question of what he did when he got the reminder which may well blow it for him.
Gan
Unless he sent it very near the deadline "I assumed it crossed in the post" isn't believable

Judging by some of the threads, it's not obvious to phone up and check
Neither is it obvious to keep a copy of the reply

It does amaze me that a document with such serious consequences if not recorded as received doesn't have instructions in big red letters to keep a copy and and how to prove it's been sent
Kickaha
The OP has said (albeit indirectly) that he did not receive the reminder, so he needs to convince the court that his reply went missing AND the reminder went missing. That would be a big ask.
Resurrection
To clear up any confusion, I received an NIP in February, filled in the form, ticked the boxes to say it was me driving at the time. This was posted back to the address provided on a pre paid envelope. I then forget all about it until I received a court summons. The court summons claims I have failed to respond to two letters. Firstly I responded to the initial letter. I never received the second letter I was supposed to of been sent.

Does the interpretations act 1978 section 7 come into it at all?
Logician
It does, but the difficulty you face is producing evidence to convince the court that you posted the form back, because that seems to be just your say-so.
Very occasionally we hear of cases where all parties have agreed to charge the defendant out of time, and he has then pleaded G. There is no way legally that can be done, but sometimes it just is. You could try saying, "Look I did post back the form, but I have no evidence to prove that except what I say. The form I sent back gave my name as the driver, and I would plead guilty to speeding if you could charge me with that now." If your luck is in, that may just work, but not if they go by the book, so you cannot really complain if they will not buy it.
sgtdixie
QUOTE (Resurrection @ Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 23:06) *
To clear up any confusion, I received an NIP in February, filled in the form, ticked the boxes to say it was me driving at the time. This was posted back to the address provided on a pre paid envelope. I then forget all about it until I received a court summons. The court summons claims I have failed to respond to two letters. Firstly I responded to the initial letter. I never received the second letter I was supposed to of been sent.

Does the interpretations act 1978 section 7 come into it at all?

Yes. But your claim to have sent the reply is self serving evidence. That means you stand to gain by lying and the court only has your word you replied AND the reply was received. The Police however have nothing to gain by denying it arrived when it did and they have robust admin systems which record everything sent and received. You don't.
Jlc
Did you sign the form?
Resurrection
Update

Failure to furnish was dropped.

Prosecutor said i'd end up with 3 points and £200. Magistrate gave me 4 points and £420 fine.
scottishpoet
better than 6 points and a similar fine, plus the FTF would have been a bigger hit on your insurance
Jlc
So they charged you with speeding even though it wasn't on the charge sheet?
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