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Bacardi
We have recieved a pcn for not dislaying a valid ticket. I believe we are a victim of ticket flutter. We have a ticket for the period that the car was parked, and it matches the serial of the ticket in the ceo picture.

I have requested the parking order and have recieved it. I can not see anywhere where it tells me i have to display the ticket with the time showing, it just states to display a valid ticket.

I have also made an informal appeal and have been rejected. I did email the neighbourhood warden manager stating that we had not contraviened any of the parking order, and the the council needs to take regard to paragraph 85 from the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities;

85. An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point
throughout the CPE process. It can do this even when an undoubted
contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the
circumstances of the case. Under general principles of public law, authorities
have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise
discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest

This statutory guidance is given legal clout by section 87 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 and it is therefore expected that the council must have regard to this guidance.


I was told that "All correspondence for appeals relating to the issuing of Penalty Charge Notices has to be submitted to our Central Processing Unit directly. " & "I would add that on the pay & display ticket you obtained from the machine it clearly states “Place Ticket on dashboard THIS SIDE UP”. This is to ensure that the expiry time is visible for inspection by a Civil Enforcement Officer"

Now seeing as the information is not contained in the parking order, can they rely on the ticket. I would of thought information should be in the parking order as that is what had been agreed.

here is a copy of the relevant parts of the parking order ( i do have a pdf version but i am unsure how to upload it.)

The parking order section 2 states relevant position means

part b

in respect of a vehicle displaying a pay and display ticket or parking permit.

i- the ticket or permit is exhibited on the inside surface of the windscreen or in a clearly visible position so that it is facing forwards and can easily seen and read from the front or side of the vehicle, or

ii- in the case of a vehicle not fitted with a transparent windscreen, the ticket or permit is exhibited on the front of the vehicle facing forwards and clearly visible.

Section 25 Display of Ticket states

i- Ensure that a valid pay and display ticket has been obtained and is displayed at all times the vehicle is parked and to cover the entire period that the vehicle is parked in the parking place, and

ii- display the valid pay and display ticket in the relevant position on the vehicle in respect of which it was issued.


How can the council ask for it to be displayed on the inside surface of the windscreen, yet provide no backing?

Given the paragraph from 85 from the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities; how can the council given my case any consideration when the neighbourhood warden replys it has to be delt with by park smarter there central processing unit.

A sumary of parking offences on the ticket machine board only lists not displaying a valid ticket (which we have done). Not for displaying a ticket the wrong way round.

I was going to request from the council how they have adopted the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities; a copy of the policy and the date it was introduced. Do you think i am wasting my time?

Sorry for the long post but we are rather miffed by the councils treatment of us, no wonder high streets are dying





Incandescent
Did the council re-offer the discount in their rejection letter ? We really need to see your appeal and their response to make sure they have considered your appeal points. If they have not, it is a procedural impropriety. In addition you can appeal on failure to have regard to the statutory guidance. Note "not having regard to", not "ignoring it". Guidance can be ignored but regard has to be made to it, and reasons for not following it recorded as council decisions.
Bacardi
the appeal was based on the information supplied by my wife. Who said the ticket was the right way round and obscured

from the informal appeal

I parked my car in the albion center car park. I purchased a ticket and displayed this in my windscreen. The ticket was valid from 10.00am until 13.00 on the 10.6.14. On return to my car at 11.27am i had a penalty charge notice when i was observed from 10.59 until 11.05 am on the 10.6.14. This ticket was then placed to obsure the pay and display ticket. I still have my ticket, and wish to make a formal complaint against the officer who issued my ticket. They are clearly not doing their job correctly. I have been advised to make my formal complaint by park smarter advisor, on this form. They also refused to give me a copy of their complaints procedure which i believe i should be entilted to.

however further submissions were made and added to the case by the neighbourhood warden manger.


from me to the council

Thank you for your quick response in sending over the Parking order. Having read the parking order and the ticket machine, it has become clear no violation took place.

The parking order section 2 states relevant position means part b

in respect of a vehicle displaying a pay and display ticket or parking permit.

i- the ticket or permit is exhibited on the inside surface of the windscreen or in a clearly visible position so that it is facing forwards and can easily seen and read from the front or side of the vehicle, or

ii- in the case of a vehicle not fitted with a transparent windscreen, the ticket or permit is exhibited on the front of the vehicle facing forwards and clearly visible.

Section 25 Display of Ticket states

i- Ensure that a valid pay and display ticket has been obtained and is displayed at all times the vehicle is parked and to cover the entire period that the vehicle is parked in the parking place, and

ii- display the valid pay and display ticket in the relevant position on the vehicle in respect of which it was issued.

Nowhere on the parking order does it state which way round to place the ticket, further more section 25 display of ticket, says to ensure a valid ticket is displayed at all times covering the period that the vehicle was parked. This was complied with as a valid ticket had been purchased and displayed. It also states to display the ticket in the relevant part of the vehicle. It does not give clear instruction as to where this part of the vehicle is, which I believe it should do.

I cannot find any reference to your claim the expiry time needs to be visible at all times for inspection by a civil enforcement officer prior to entering into the contract to park. These would need to highlighted in the Parking order and on the ticket machines.

Furthermore I believe we been subject to a phenomena of ticket flutter, to which I believe the council is fully aware. I believe it is the council’s responsibility to try and eradicate this. Section 2 implies to fix the ticket to the inside of the windscreen. How can this be achieved if no sticky backing is provided, this would also stop ticket flutter. Whilst I agree it could lead to some tickets falling off. it should be of a far lesser degree.

Also seeing as the ticket number can be printed on both sides, it would be beneficial to print the time and date on both sides as well, and this would lead to far less cases of ticket flutter.

“I believe it necessary to bring to the councils attention paragraph 85 from the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities;

85. An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point
throughout the CPE process. It can do this even when an undoubted
contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the
circumstances of the case. Under general principles of public law, authorities
have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise
discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest

This statutory guidance is given legal clout by section 87 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 and it is therefore expected that the council must have regard to this guidance.

As we clearly purchased a valid ticket and did display it correctly prior to leaving our vehicle, we complied with the parking regulations. Unfortunately ticket somehow became displaced probably by opening a door or even the boot. As a valid ticket has been presented for inspection it is clear to any reasonable person that it would not be in the public interest to penalise a person for such an inconsequential misdemeanour.
I therefore politely request that the council act fairly and proportionately in this matter and exercise their discretion sensibly and reasonably by cancelling this penalty charge forthwith.” I enclose a copy of the parking ticket, a copy of the penalty notice (to which you have already been given a copy of but claim you have not), and a picture of the signage in the relevant car park

from the council to me


All correspondence for appeals relating to the issuing of Penalty Charge Notices has to be submitted to our Central Processing Unit directly. As you will appreciate, all correspondence is required to be scanned on to the case for audit purposes. On this occasion, I will pass the below to the Central Processing Unit on your behalf and ask that it is assigned as an appeal to the Notice. Once the case is then reviewed, they will write to you with the decision on the case.



I would add that on the pay & display ticket you obtained from the machine it clearly states “Place Ticket on dashboard THIS SIDE UP”. This is to ensure that the expiry time is visible for inspection by a Civil Enforcement Officer. Finally, please note that your appeal will place the case on hold and the Central Processing Unit aim to respond to you with three weeks.
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE
I can not see anywhere where it tells me i have to display the ticket with the time showing, it just states to display a valid ticket.


That's good so far - good on that Neighbourhood Warden guy! Does the Order say a person has to 'continuously display'? See here:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j....70138588,d.ZGU

...a whole section about Fluttering tickets and traffic orders that don't cover the phenomenon, written by the Chief Adjudicator.

also once you've read that, search this forum for the keyword 'fluttering' to find Bogsy's famous fluttering ticket appeal wording. You'll get there in the end.
Bacardi
the order says

Section 25 Display of Ticket states

i- Ensure that a valid pay and display ticket has been obtained and is displayed at all times the vehicle is parked and to cover the entire period that the vehicle is parked in the parking place, and

i did have a read of that thread before writing my email to the council. Which they have ignored most.


QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 8 Jul 2014 - 13:03) *
In addition you can appeal on failure to have regard to the statutory guidance. Note "not having regard to", not "ignoring it". Guidance can be ignored but regard has to be made to it, and reasons for not following it recorded as council decisions.


So should i ask the council for there policy and how they implemented it on my case, because they just emailed back say it has to goto the parking company.
Bacardi
Right i was a bit bored so i have sent of a FOI request

Dear FOI officer



I should like to request the following information



Any documents the council hold on how the council implement the Traffic management act 2004 Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities, between 2004 and present impaticular section 85



Any documents council hold relating to an alleged parking contravention ref. XXXX taking place on XXXX and present



Any documents between ourselves and a Mr XXX from 10.6.14 until present, partially regarding how the council implemented section 85 of the Traffic management act 2004 and arrived at its decision in this case.



I request how many PCN were issued with the ticket face down for the period 5.4.12 until 5.4.13

I request how many PCN were cancelled for the period 5.4.12 until 5.4.13 under the Traffic management act 2004 directly by the council



I request how many PCN were issued with the ticket face down for the period 6.4.13 until 5.4.14

I request how many PCN were cancelled for the period 6.4.13 until 5.4.14 under the Traffic management act 2004 directly by the council


I request how many PCN were issued with the ticket face down for the period 6.4.14 until present

I request how many PCN were cancelled for the period 6.4.14 until present under the Traffic management act 2004 directly by the council

May finally request any documents the council hold regarding the phenomenon of ticket fluttering from January 2009 and present.


I should prefer to receive these in electronic format at this email address, however, I am happy to receive them by post if that is more convenient.



It would be helpful if you were to provide any brief notes which might be necessary to understand the context of the information provided, although I recognise that you are not obliged to do this. If for any reason you feel this request is unclear, please do not hesitate to contact me at the number above. If you are not the appropriate authority for this request, or for part of it, please let me know as soon as is convenient.



If the information requested contains sections of confidential information, please blank out or remove these sections, and mark clearly that they have been removed.

Thank you for your help.

Regards





Bacardi
and the appeal reply



Interestingly they say it should be securely displayed prior to leaving the vehicle. How can i do that if the ticket has no sticky backing
Bacardi
No one got any advice after posting the ticket and replies
Incandescent
They have failed to consider your challenge, Just stating the ticket was face-down, and the PCN correctly issued is not sufficient, as you already know that, what you want to know is why they have failed to use their discretion when full payment was made for parking, i.e they lost no money at all. However, you'll have to go to TPT to determine the matter and forego the discount, and they are relying on this to get their money, so haven't bothered answering your challenge.
Bacardi
Today i have had the notice to owner, copy below. Any advice on the next stage.







Bacardi
Anyone got any advice. Reading the forum it appears to me that the pcn may breach regulation 3(2)(b).

Although the PCN does say that representations will be considered, it fails to make the recipient aware of the period of time they are lawfully entitled to in which to submit such representations. The lawful period is given by regulation 3(2)(b) and it is given as any time before the NtO is served and as such a PCN must convey this fact to the recipient.

What do you think?
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