Someone (not me, honest) moved into a CPZ this week. I impressed upon them the importance of visiting the Council offices, in person, as soon as possible, to get a temporary parking permit. So of course they rang first, to check the procedure, opening hours, location etc. Oh no, they were told, you have to get the form off the internet and post it off, it takes 10 days.

Well, I didn't trust that information so instead, at 08:56 (4 minute before the CPZ hours start) I hand delivered their temporary parking permit application to the appropriate processing office, with a requested start date of today, having already left a note in the windscreen to that effect. Of course, as you will have guessed by now, they received a PCN today.

Now, am I correct in thinking:

1) The person at the council who said you cannot apply in person was lying through their teeth?
2) My friend will pick up a PCN every day until they eventually receive their parking permit, which, given the bank holiday, will probably be a couple of weeks?
3) Any attempt to appeal based on the fact that (eventually) my friend will have a parking permit, dated from today and therefore encompassing the days of the PCNs, will be rejected?

Just trying to get to grips with how the system works please.

Basic facts of life exist whether we like them or not.
Information given on telephones may well be incorrect, incomplete or misinterpreted.
Any information given out on the phone is worth the paper it is written on.
If someone parks where a permit is needed and they do not display that permit they are likely to get a PCN.
Whether applying for a permit will be taken as reason to cancel PCNs served after the date of submission depends on the good will or written policy's of the council in question.
And even if it is in writing, don't depend on their goodwill once they see pound notes in the offing.
I'm assuming that the contravention will be failing to display a permit. Having one is not enough.

Challenge the first PCN, goodwill may happen. But I'd be looking at more pragmatic measures until the permit comes through. Like move the car at 8.55 every morning or find somewhere to park that does not require a permit. Perhaps visitors permits until proper job comes through.

If you want some help in fighting the first PCN, post up documents and we can have a looksee but at the moment can't see any argument on what you have said.

The main point to remember is that there is NO goodwill in council parking departments; they want your money pure and simple, and are ruthless, venal and rapacious in getting it. Nothing counts except the money.

Any chance he can borrow a visitors from a neighbour till he gets his ???

Thanks for all the comments. Will go for a goodwill appeal. Temporary permits are per vehicle, and (apparently) take 10 days to issue, so no way of getting a temporary one from a neighbour, unfortunately. And you can get visitors permits, so a neighbour may have some, but they cost quite a lot and if I remember correctly last the grand total of 2 hours per ticket. The whole system is extremely restrictive.

CPZ's regulate prohibited parking not permitted parking. The bay where your friend parked, is there an adjacent traffic sign that regulates the bay?

Not sure what you mean... there is a sign that says resident permits only parking 0900-1730 Mon-Fri. It's the North Brentford and Boston Manor CPZ.

I note other topics in this forum re. pavement parking etc even of motorcycles - incidentally in this particular road there are plenty of cars, motorcycles etc on grass verges and whatnot, they don't seem to get tickets, lucky them!

CPZ signs have a great big "No Waiting" roundel in their design. Therefore the sign indicates the hours when parking on yellow lines is prohibited. It cannot be used to regulate parking places.

What is the contravention description stated on the PCN?

Taken from Hounslow Council's website:-

"Please note: If you're a first time car owner or a new resident of the borough, you cannot park within a controlled parking zone until you have obtained either a permanent or Temporary Parking Permit."

and

"Parking permit charges

Note: there is an additional £20 administration charge for buying parking permits in person at the Civic Centre.

This charge does not apply to postal renewals or to residents who hand their documents in to be processed and returned by post.

Nor does it apply if you :
■
post your documents in the Civic Centre reception post box

■
can prove your late application was due to medical reasons

■
live near Twickenham rugby club and get free parking permits or match days

■
get a temporary permit by phone, email or online, that is usually issued on the same day"

Hope that helps.

Not really. (a) As far as I can tell, that applies only to temporary permits issued to someone who already has a permanent permit (temporary permits are issued for reasons other than you've just moved into the area), and (b) that was entirely the point of this person ringing up to check the actual procedure. They were explicitly told that they had to get the form online, fill it in, send it off and wait 10 days. (Presumably so the council can earn 10 x £110 fines.)

Now, further information. Normally, they would not have gotten a ticket, because the caretaker always spots the parking enforcement officer and tells them when there is new tenant. Unfortunately on this particular day a different person came round; the caretaker had a major argument with them, but they still issued a ticket.

And, my understanding is that the RTRA (according to the courts) is for traffic management, and not revenue generation. It is therefore difficult to understand how fining someone £110 when they have already applied and paid for the required parking permit, regardless of whether or not it is displayed, manages traffic. Especially in a parking bay that is at the end of a cul-de-sac and therefore by definition has nothing to do with any traffic.





I haven't seen any such sign in the area. I haven't seen any signs on the single yellows at all, anywhere in the area. The only signs I've seen are on the parking bays themselves. I am going to try to attach a picture of one.

The contravention description is (I am going from memory here) "failure to display a permit; failure to display a ticket; or failure to pay the charge". (The last two apply, respectively, to getting a ticket from a pay and display machine - there are some bays in the area where the signs indicate you can park either if you have a residents permit or you pay at the machine, and to paying by phone or app rather than getting an actual ticket.)
Click to view attachment

Of course the sign is not strictly accurate, since if you read the small print on the council website, the CPZ rules do not apply on bank or public holidays (except for one of the CPZs).

And finally, as has been pointed out in this forum before, the North Brentford and Boston Manor CPZ is not actually listed on the Hounslow Council website in the list of CPZs, and they don't publish a map of it (nor the hours of operation) on the website either.

That sign has nothing to do with a CPZ. A CPZ sign is diagram 663

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...20023113_en_059

Okay, so post #10 and it's nothing to do with a CPZ. It's regular parking bays with regular restriction signs.

OK, got that. Hounslow Council calls it a CPZ, because all their residents parking schemes are exactly coincident with their CPZs, that is, all permitted parking bays within a CPZ are residents only (with some also pay and display), and all residents parking scheme bays lie within CPZs. So in all their official documentation, Hounslow actually refer to their residents parking schemes as CPZs.

Anyway, I have the answer to my question, which is, how do you move into a Hounslow CPZ (which is also a residents parking scheme) without getting PCNs, and the answer is, you rely on the relationship between the caretaker and the parking enforcement officer, and it either works or it doesn't.