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WhatNext
Dear forum folk

I fell victim of a PCN in a genuine case of unknowingly parking in a bay reserved from electrical vehicles.
I didn't take a picture of the signage or floor which in hindsight I wish I had but to me it wasn't clear enough to stand out as I clearly parked there and got myself a PCN as a result sad.gif

The location was a multi storey car park in Leicester town centre and it's pretty poorly lit as our these kinds of places.
The bays aren't high vis paint to me, the electrical bays didn't jump out to me as being different to the normal ones.

Only after getting a ticket did I look closely and see there was signage but to me it wasn't obvious really especially when in a rush and in poor lighting. I just wasn't looking out for it and it wasn't shouty enough to stand out clearly.

Wanted to know if u folk think I should contest or just pay the £35 before it rises to £70.

I am not from Leicester so didn't know there were such restrictions in place but I might be returning next weekend if photos might help u guys? I do need to pay up ASAP though or contest it else it goes up to £70

Advise please!
Mad Mick V
Post up the PCN sans personal details.

It would depend on what the Off-Street Order stipulates.

Contravention code would either say wrong class of vehicle or parked without charging.

Mick
WhatNext
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 18 May 2014 - 11:00) *
Post up the PCN sans personal details.

It would depend on what the Off-Street Order stipulates.

Contravention code would either say wrong class of vehicle or parked without charging.

Mick


Apologies, here are some more details...

Contravention code: 71
"Parking in a electric vehicles charging place during restricted hours without charging."


Another thing that coaxed me into parking in that bay was a mini estate-type vehicle and a full size van, with a gap between them which I took. Neither poked like electric vehicles.
Being in a rush i saw a bay, reversed into it and was off. It turns out that that mini-van vehicle thing was a council vehicle and was apparently electric. It looked normal and was a major factor in me parking in that zone, along with the normal transit van next to it.

So in hindsight i dont dispute that i was parking in an electric bay, but i do state that the bays weren't clearly obvious, despite different coloured paint. It isn't high visibility, i would describe it as faded to the extent that the difference between the white 'normal' bays and the 'yellow' electric bays isn't striking. Especially when you are in a rush and especially in dim dingy lighting.
Incandescent
Inadequate signage for the location is grounds for an appeal. Signs need to be clear and visible at all times the car-park restriction is in operation. Dim and dingy lighting only adds to the appeal ground. If councils want to impose these things on the motorist, then they must make sure it is clear what can park there. I do find it astonishing that the Government allows councils to provide a commercial service like this; they don't provide petrol stations, so why electric charging points. Rant over !!
WhatNext
My main concern is exceeding the timeframe for the discounted charge, and then losing an appeal in which case the wording on the PCN says the discount may not be offered. Are they likely to do that?

Also I can see them saying signage is ample despite my not having seen it when in a rush. Does being a visitor/outsider to the city help at all as I didn't have that local knowledge of the controlled zone being in place?
hcandersen
We can't advise because we've not seen the PCN which specifies the dates to which you refer.
You must post the PCN, both sides, and leave in all details except PCN number and your vehicle's registration.
WhatNext
Hopefully this works...

PCN1
PCN2
Mad Mick V
I've had a look at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website without finding the Order which allows(and gives conditions of use) for these EV charging points.

I suspect the Council has used a General Permitted Development Order to install this system rather than change its Off-Street Parking Order because it seems to have been lumped in with the provision of micro-generation equipment to housing stock.

The OP needs to ask the Council to provide the appropriate Order.

Mick
WhatNext
Thanks for taking the time to check Mick, appreciated!

So is it a viable option for me to challenge the PCN on the basis of the things I described earlier, and as part of that challenge also ask to see the "Order" which defines use and conditions of use of EV charging points in the specific location I was ticketed? If they do supply one, what do we do with that?

Mad Mick V
The Off-Street Parking Order which covers Newarke Street is what you are after. It will give conditions like an EV must be connected to the charging point whilst standing. Some Councils like Milton Keynes do allow EVs to park without being connected.

The other issue mentioned above is the bay markings; these must be clear enough both sign and surface markings to delineate the bay in question. Last it must be exclusive i.e. not a shared bay. If you are going to fight this PCN then photos would be advantageous.

I would have thought your points on poor lighting and poor signage would be worth an informal appeal; they will re-offer the discount if that fails.

Mick
WhatNext
Thats great thanks Mick, I will endeavour to take pictures around the area this happened when I am next up there, and post them up. I will also ask them on the appeal to provide me with the order, as per your description, for the Newarke Street area.

As ever this forum and its members, have proven to be invaluable, never cease to impress!! smile.gif
paulajayne
"Parking in a electric vehicles charging place during restricted hours without charging."

So if a partial discharged vehicle parks and plugs in, reaches full charge in 10 mins (charging ceases) then it is technically in contravention?
WhatNext
Ok, so to contest this I am going to email them with all the reasons why I think this PCN has been unfairly issued, if someone wouldn't mind giving me a nod as to the clarity of my explanations please?




I would like to contest this unfair penalty which I received, as identified by the PCN number above.
The reason I believe this penalty is unfair is outlined below.

1. Firstly, the general condition of the painted bays, is rather dull. It is not clear or obvious that some bays are yellow and some are white, especially when viewed with a passing glance. The paint is not seemingly very new, and the contrast of the yellow and white is not striking. I only now know of the difference having recieved the PCN. Otherwise the special bays did not stand out to me at all. There is not enough of a difference in the colouration of the two types of bay.

2. Secondly, being in a multi-story car park, the location of these electrical bays is dimly lit. The resulting dull yellow lighting, with reflections and glare that are common in multi-storey car parks, make it extremely difficult to see a noticeable difference between an electric bay and a normal bay. I refer back to the faded/dim paint.

3. The white signage on the wall, is something I only noticed after getting the PCN. It is a small white board, which is located at a height that an MPV vehicle blocks view of, especially when reversing into the bay as I had done. It was impossible for me to have seen the small white sign unless I had driven forwards into the bay, which sadly I had not done on this occasion.

4. Being a visitor to the city, the presence of special designated electical bays wasnt something I was at all aware of. Perhaps local knowledge would have meant I would have known about these special bays, but being from another town and being in the Leicester Town Centre for the first time, I sadly was unaware of this.

5. Having spoken to an attendant on the day immediately after the PSN was discovered and explaining my situation to them, even the attendant agreed that the electrical bays are not completely obvious especially to a new comer, and that it was rather unfortunate that I had been issued a PCN given a genuine unawareness of specialised bays being in operation. However since the attendants are not the people issuing these PSNs they were powerless to help.

6. The presence of what seemed a completely normal and non-electrical vehicle parked in the very same zone was further reason I had no ground to believe this was any special bay. Only later did I discover that it was a council vehicle and am told it is electric by a parking attendant. Electric vehicles normally have a very distint appearance, and this one did not, and was a further reason I had no reason to believe the bay was special, and it also further hid the faded flooring on the bay in which I had reversed parked into.



For thease reasons I deem this a very unfair penality, and would like to request a copy of the Off-Street Parking Order which covers Newarke Street, as I could not find it on the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website.

Thank you
hcandersen
Not for me.
IMO, you should start with: I did not notice that I was in a bay which, according to the authority, is restricted to electric vehicles while charging. In addition, even if I had seen any signs, I was not aware that parking at this location was a contravention because as far as I could see no reference to this was made on the tariff and notice board.
Why you didn't e.g. the faded paint, dimly lit etc, is secondary. Your defence is that the contravention did not occur because the restriction was neither specified on the tariff/notice board nor clearly signed at the location by way of signs and markings.
It's then the authority's task to state what measures were in place and why they believe they were adequate.
I would not refer to you not knowing that bays for electric cars exist etc. because the authority might infer that the reason you didn't see is because you didn't look diligently.
WhatNext
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 19 May 2014 - 14:03) *
Not for me.
IMO, you should start with: I did not notice that I was in a bay which, according to the authority, is restricted to electric vehicles while charging. In addition, even if I had seen any signs, I was not aware that parking at this location was a contravention because as far as I could see no reference to this was made on the tariff and notice board.
Why you didn't e.g. the faded paint, dimly lit etc, is secondary. Your defence is that the contravention did not occur because the restriction was neither specified on the tariff/notice board nor clearly signed at the location by way of signs and markings.
It's then the authority's task to state what measures were in place and why they believe they were adequate.
I would not refer to you not knowing that bays for electric cars exist etc. because the authority might infer that the reason you didn't see is because you didn't look diligently.


Thank you, your suggestions sound very valid indeed. I will adjust my text.
However, is it the same thing if I didn't see any tariff boards but they were there, or if there weren't any which is the reason I didn't see them. What I mean by that is, I noticed the normal parking ticket pay machines but given that you have to pay after you return (not pay and display) even if the tariff details stated anything about electrical vehicles, I wouldn't have known till it was too late anyway?
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