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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] One registered keeper, 2 insured drivers, one speeding ticket
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Nutshell
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2014
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A15 Bourges boulevard northbound carriageway Peterborough
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Named driver on vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - A few weeks ago, We got a speeding issued to our family car. Now the problem is that the alleged speeding took place on the 16th of March which is our sons birthday and both my husband and I drove the car on that day as we had to pick up items for the party etc.

I sent a letter requesting pictures in order to ascertain who exactly was driving at the time but the tickets don't show the driver, just the car. We are both insured to drive the car though my husband is the registered keeper. So the dilemma is, neither of us wants to take points on our license that might belong to the other. What can we do.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:18:50 +0000
AntonyMMM
If your husband is the registered keeper, why have you got a NIP ? Has he already named you as the driver ?

Your answers to the NIP wizard don't add up ... who is the keeper? , who has received a NIP ?
scottishpoet
Is the camera on a road that you both used?

can you work out from the time of credit card purchases who bought what when and hence who was driving at the time of the offense?

just a couple of ideas of the level of due diligence you need to go through to attempt to identify the driver

StuartBu
QUOTE (Nutshell @ Sat, 19 Apr 2014 - 11:18) *

What can we do.


Well it is a memorable day and it's not that long ago so you and your husband need to sit down and THINK about that day and where the alleged offence is said to have taken place ...were you both in the car each time it was used or only one of you ..consider where you were going when you passed that particular spot ..What time of day was it ...was one of you at home and the other elsewhere . did anyone buy petrol around that time and who was it ( or buy anything else in that vicinity using a card ) Any mobile calls made that might give a clue .....
Logician
Assuming your husband has not already named you and you are in effect posting on behalf of you both, you have two options:

(1) Work out who was driving, reconstructing what was happening on that day, or failing that take your best guess.

(2) Reply offering the names of both possible drivers and explain why you are unable to determine which of you was driving at the time in question. This will almost certainly result in a summons for failure to provide driver details and you will have to persuade a court that you could not, with reasonable diligence, have identified the driver. This is not impossible, but is increasingly difficult as too many people have tried to get off speeding tickets in the past by using this defence, and magistrates have become highly suspicious of claims that two grown adults cannot remember a journey they made a few days previously. If you cannot show that you were genuinely unable to identify the driver, the penalty is 6 points, a fine of several hundred pounds, and an MS90 code on your driving licence which will make getting insurance difficult and expensive for the next 5 years - much more so than a minor speeding offence. Insurance companies see the code, and wonder what you did that was so terrible that 6 points and £500 was a better option than owning up to it...

Given the disparity in the penalties, in these circumstances taking your best guess is usually the most pragmatic option.
sgtdixie
A court will take some convincing 2 adults can't work out who was driving at a specified time, location and direction only 7 days later. Too many people have tried this so courts are very sceptical.
AFCNEAL
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Sat, 19 Apr 2014 - 12:31) *
A court will take some convincing 2 adults can't work out who was driving at a specified time, location and direction only 7 days later. Too many people have tried this so courts are very sceptical.


Moreover, two adults not remembering who collected which items at what time is highly improbable......

This is an old defence which is almost certain to fail............
The Rookie
If you cannot, despite exercising reasonable dilligence, ID the driver you have a defence, whether the court accept it or not is a different matter.

Have you checked phone bills and card receipts to see if it places one or other of you in a position where you must or cannot be the driver?
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