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frivvie
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2014
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 16 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Plymouth Road (Jct Cot Hill) Plympton Plymouth
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Belongs to my wife
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I have no recollection of the incident. But just received this NIP saying I contravened a red traffic light. My wife is the registered keeper so it was addressed to her but I was driving the car. A lot of people have been caught by this camera with no recollection of going through it on red including my wife. The NIP seems to have taken 7 days from date of issue to arrive in the post and was not sent recorded delivery. Im 50 years old and never had points on my license. Can I fight this or should I take the line of least resistance?

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Do nothing!

    The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to.
    Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:37:25 +0000
Jlc
There's a presumption of service that you would have to rebut (delivered 2 working days after dated). Regardless, the s172 (name the driver) request is still valid.

The camera's are rarely wrong as they are triggered by sensors in the road during the red phase only.

Of course, you could ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver - they don't have to supply but they often do and this will almost certainly show red.
The Rookie
Write and ask for any photo's to help you confirm the drivers ID (or similar wording) and they will almost certainly provide you with a photo that will surprise you (not in a good way).

Can you think of any reason why the NIP took so long, do you have any witnesses to the delivery, What is the 'docref' date on page2 of the V5C (registration document) please?

frivvie
As the letter wasn't sent recorded delivery they have no evidence it was delivered before the deadline and both my wife and I will testify that the letter arrived after it. Are they likely to take this to court if I don't accept a conditional offer? Like I said, 50 years old, very safe driver with no points and no accidents. Very surprised and annoyed to receive this. But not sure I can be bothered going to court over it.
Kickaha
If you do not accept the fixed penalty it will end up in court.

They do not have to prove delivery, as long as they can prove posting in the relevant timeframe.

It would then be for you to rebut this.

Edit to add:

Depending on your time into the red, and if the police zuthority run them you may be elligible for a course, costs about the same as the penslty but no points.
AntonyMMM
And whether or not you are going to try a late NIP defence in court, your wife must still return the form giving the drivers details (you), and you must do the same when you subsequently receive your own NIP.

You can then decline the offer of a course/fpn should you so wish.
Gan
A claim that a correctly dated letter was delivered late will always end up in court

Even if it was delivered late you can expect the police to argue that it doesn't matter if it was posted in time, regardless of Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside
Jlc
QUOTE (frivvie @ Fri, 28 Mar 2014 - 11:59) *
As the letter wasn't sent recorded delivery they have no evidence it was delivered before the deadline and both my wife and I will testify that the letter arrived after it. Are they likely to take this to court if I don't accept a conditional offer? Like I said, 50 years old, very safe driver with no points and no accidents. Very surprised and annoyed to receive this. But not sure I can be bothered going to court over it.

Go through the motions - ask for the photo but do not fail to nominate the driver in time, the offence almost certainly occurred. I'm sure you are a safe driver but that's not what they are 'attacking'.

They don't have to prove it arrived on time (they just have to show it was posted and they will have a record of that). You have to show it didn't. This is not impossible but not to be taken lightly. Do you often have postal delays? Any postmark?
sgtdixie
Whilst 2 witnesses giving evidence as to the date the NIP arrived should be quite persuasive a court will recognise that you are not independent witnesses and you both have a vested interest in lying as it prevents a prosecution. How much that affects the weight they attach to your evidence only a court will know, we can't judge that.

As has been said s7 Interpretations Act states that the NIP would have been deemed to have arrived 2 working days after posting. If you wish to challenge this it is a certainty you will go to court. Have you kept the envelope? The post mark may be critical as if it is past day 13 you are home free, if it is day 10 then it is harder to rebut the presumption.

In any event you have a few weeks to decide as your wife must name you and you will get the same request. Be aware that many areas run red light courses and they are limited in how long after the offence they are offered. As there is no benefit to delaying it may be worth your while getting your wifes reply in ASAP and then you asking for a photo. This will shorten the timeline and may give you another option.

frivvie
As a matter of interest, once my wife has named me as the driver is there a time limit to serve me with the NIP?
mrh3369
No, the only other time limit would be 6 months from the offence to lay information at court.
The Rookie
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 28 Mar 2014 - 11:45) *
Can you think of any reason why the NIP took so long, do you have any witnesses to the delivery, What is the 'docref' date on page2 of the V5C (registration document) please?

Please......while unlikely we need to be sure this isn't a second NIP.

Also without giving dates, how did the weekend fall relative to the date on the NIP. If the NIP was dated on a Friday for example it wouldn't have arrived in the normal course of the post until Tuesday (if posted Friday) or Wednesday (if it was printed after post left on the Friday so posted Monday) , so that is 4 and 5 days easily explained.
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