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Marks
Hi,

Yes - as per title - i was stupid enough to drive with 2 bald tyres and got stopped. I WAS actually on my way to get all 4 changed (i had appointment card and i showed that to the officers) but its still my fault.

Got this today in post - Summons to court. Also - i am not UK resident and i dont live here, only visiting my sister from time to time. Got EU licence. Can anyone please help me to fill it in? Any ideas about fine amount? Thank you in advance.

roadrunner 163
3 points and about a weeks wage.
Marks
Thank you roadrunner 163.

Appreciate reply.

Weeks wage in gbp? I dont live or work in UK, i'm from germany. Any estimated amount in gbp? Just a rough number...
sgtdixie
QUOTE (Marks @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 21:46) *
Thank you roadrunner 163.

Appreciate reply.

Weeks wage in gbp? I dont live or work in UK, i'm from germany. Any estimated amount in gbp? Just a rough number...

It's quite simple. Convert from Euros to £'s. No estimation needed as exchange rate has been stable for a while.
Marks
Thanks sgtdixie. What is average weekly wage in uk? Also - how will they add points to my german licence?
sgtdixie
QUOTE (Marks @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 21:53) *
Thanks sgtdixie. What is average weekly wage in uk? Also - how will they add points to my german licence?

In the absence of any means form they assume £400 Per Week. Be aware that courts can ask you to prove your earnings, so there is little point in lying as if they ask for proof and you can't give it they will default to the average.

They don't put points on your licence. They create a Ghost UK licence. This has the points put on it. If you get 12 you are disqualified in the UK albeit you can drive everywhere else on your German Licence.
enfield freddy
is fine money collectable from someone in Germany?
johnjo42
QUOTE (enfield freddy @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 22:29) *
is fine money collectable from someone in Germany?

Oh yes. And if you don't pay, they keep a record of it and next time you set foot in England you'll be locked up for a while, so it's best simply to pay.
trubster
Im surprised the offichars didn't take a cash deposit like they do with the heavy's since the VOSA GFP scheme was brought in

Still 3 points for 2 tyres?
enfield freddy
so the answer is , no they cannot collect monies from Germany , only whilst you are in the UK
AFCNEAL
Is it not strange to pursue a case if the defendant has a confirmed appointment for the tyres to be changed? Or is the law applied differently compared to (say) an expired MoT and booked test?

How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?

What am I missing Wise Ones?
peterguk
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
Is it not strange to pursue a case if the defendant has a confirmed appointment for the tyres to be changed? Or is the law applied differently compared to (say) an expired MoT and booked test?

How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?


I'm presuming becuase the law does not take into account desitination or purpose of journey.

So tyres should be replaced before they are illegal. Use them on the road for any purpose when they are illegal and you're in trouble.
The Rookie
QUOTE (enfield freddy @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:12) *
so the answer is , no they cannot collect monies from Germany , only whilst you are in the UK

Actually they can, it can be levied through the German courts as an unpaid fine if it is over a certain amount, I think that amount is about £600 from memory.
sgtdixie
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:19) *
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
Is it not strange to pursue a case if the defendant has a confirmed appointment for the tyres to be changed? Or is the law applied differently compared to (say) an expired MoT and booked test?

How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?


I'm presuming becuase the law does not take into account desitination or purpose of journey.

So tyres should be replaced before they are illegal. Use them on the road for any purpose when they are illegal and you're in trouble.

Peter has hit the nail on the head.

Going to an MOT does not mean your vehicle is unroadworthy. In fact even an MOT failure won't necessarily fall foul of Con & Use regs.

It isn't a defence to say your vehicle was in a dangerous condition but you were going to fix it. If it is on the road it has to comply with the regs.
NeverMind
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?

What am I missing Wise Ones?


Take them off and get a lift to the depot (done it myself many times) .... or call a Mobile Tyre Fitter.

Jus' sayin' wink.gif


enfield freddy
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:20) *
QUOTE (enfield freddy @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:12) *
so the answer is , no they cannot collect monies from Germany , only whilst you are in the UK
Actually they can, it can be levied through the German courts as an unpaid fine if it is over a certain amount, I think that amount is about £600 from memory.





so in this case (fine = weeks wage) they will not pursue?

The Rookie
Maybe, depends on the wages.....and it's 2 tyres of course.
Chris1207
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 10:08) *
Maybe, depends on the wages.....and it's 2 tyres of course.


Appears from the document in the OP, that they are only going after him/her for one ?
trubster
QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:24) *
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?

What am I missing Wise Ones?


Take them off and get a lift to the depot (done it myself many times) .... or call a Mobile Tyre Fitter.

Jus' sayin' wink.gif


True. So many of these about, and normally much cheaper than the "Kwik" tyre fitters
Marks
Morning all,

Thank you for responses. Much appreciated.
So what shall i write as reply to court? I will attach my appointment card and invoices (same day all 4 tyres changed), but what shall i say to judge in order to "minimize" damage?

Also - yes it was 2 bald tyres - on summons second page says - all the sae as below (in bold) but added off side wheel was fitted with tyre which had the ply or cord exposed. This offence caries same penalty points. So summons is for both tyres...
The Rookie
Plead guilty, show you changed them that afternoon as some form of mitigation, but without smoe evidence you were planning to it may not add much (depending on the bench).
the_fury_2000
not sure there is much defence here.

Likely 3 points (possibly 6 as they can issue 3 points for each tyre).
I reckon £120 fine.

Its unfortunate because some officers may have given you 7 days to fix the problem rather than issue a penalty straight away (Unless the tyres we THAT bad??!!)
baggins1234
Unlikely to get 6 points as they shouldn't add points together for offences from the same incident
sgtdixie
QUOTE (the_fury_2000 @ Fri, 7 Feb 2014 - 13:55) *
not sure there is much defence here.

Likely 3 points (possibly 6 as they can issue 3 points for each tyre).
I reckon £120 fine.

Its unfortunate because some officers may have given you 7 days to fix the problem rather than issue a penalty straight away (Unless the tyres we THAT bad??!!)

They were showing cord. How much worse could it be. Lucky not to get a PG9.
johnjo42
QUOTE (baggins1234 @ Fri, 7 Feb 2014 - 15:04) *
Unlikely to get 6 points as they shouldn't add points together for offences from the same incident

Unless I have misread the summons there is only one charge, so one offence and one set of points. If they had laid a separate charge for each tyre (unusual in my experience) it's only one set of points as the two offences were committed on the same occasion. The same would apply if instead of 2 bald tyres you only had one and a defective exhaust and a defective rear lights. 3 offences but one lot of points.
JJ
sgtdixie
QUOTE (johnjo42 @ Fri, 7 Feb 2014 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (baggins1234 @ Fri, 7 Feb 2014 - 15:04) *
Unlikely to get 6 points as they shouldn't add points together for offences from the same incident

Unless I have misread the summons there is only one charge, so one offence and one set of points. If they had laid a separate charge for each tyre (unusual in my experience) it's only one set of points as the two offences were committed on the same occasion. The same would apply if instead of 2 bald tyres you only had one and a defective exhaust and a defective rear lights. 3 offences but one lot of points.
JJ

JJ

OP has suggested he only scanned page 1
QUOTE
Also - yes it was 2 bald tyres - on summons second page says - all the sae as below (in bold) but added off side wheel was fitted with tyre which had the ply or cord exposed. This offence caries same penalty points. So summons is for both tyres...
David_R
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
Is it not strange to pursue a case if the defendant has a confirmed appointment for the tyres to be changed? Or is the law applied differently compared to (say) an expired MoT and booked test?

How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?


I think the critical thing here is that the tyre was showing cords. IF it was just a tyre slightly below the 1.6mm minimum, then I'd bet the officer would have just issued a 14-day-fix-it notice (can't remember the correct term). I've had a few of these in the past for minor issues (slightly low tyre, cracked numberplate, split wiper etc..) He/She maybe would have taken the comment about going to get them changed at face value and done nothing, but a tyre showing cords means it's been below the 1.6mm for quite a while and is really rather dangerous.
trubster
QUOTE (David_R @ Sat, 8 Feb 2014 - 12:37) *
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 09:16) *
Is it not strange to pursue a case if the defendant has a confirmed appointment for the tyres to be changed? Or is the law applied differently compared to (say) an expired MoT and booked test?

How else do you get tyres changed? You can't surely be expected to take the wheels off and walk to the tyre depot? I'd have a go at defending this one?


I think the critical thing here is that the tyre was showing cords. IF it was just a tyre slightly below the 1.6mm minimum, then I'd bet the officer would have just issued a 14-day-fix-it notice (VDRS). I've had a few of these in the past for minor issues (slightly low tyre, cracked numberplate, split wiper etc..) He/She maybe would have taken the comment about going to get them changed at face value and done nothing, but a tyre showing cords means it's been below the 1.6mm for quite a while and is really rather dangerous.


FTFY biggrin.gif
Marks
Thanks for replies. Any ideas what to write in response to court? I will plead guilty, obviously, but how to minimize that damage..?
johnjo42
You've already been given advice as to what to say. Plead guilty and apologise.
As to minimising damage, to drive around with two tyres like that, you are lucky not to have wrapped yourself round a tree
Marks
QUOTE (johnjo42 @ Mon, 10 Feb 2014 - 18:29) *
You've already been given advice as to what to say. Plead guilty and apologise.
As to minimising damage, to drive around with two tyres like that, you are lucky not to have wrapped yourself round a tree


Thank you.

I actually arrived from germany previous night, hence "low" tread. Still its my fault and i feel very stupid now with all this court "thingy" going on.
peterguk
QUOTE (Marks @ Mon, 10 Feb 2014 - 20:54) *
I actually arrived from germany previous night, hence "low" tread.


Ah, well that explains it.

I have to admit i've never thought about it until now, but i didn't realised they don't sell new tyres in Germany.
The Rookie
Just as well you weren't caught in Germany as they would definitely have taken your car off the road.
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