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KitKatKen
Hello Everyone,

My father received a NTK in the post recently from Athena for parking his car in our local LIDL's car park for nearly 2 hours (1 hour and 57 minutes to be exact) exceeding the 90 minute free stay period. As most people do he parked his car and went off on some errands then finished by doing his weekly shop in LIDL and Iceland which shares the car park with LIDL. Unfortunately both shops had unusually long queues that day and the quick ten minute dash he was hoping for turned into a 35 minute slow queue shuffle. He's been shopping there for years and always assumed LIDL's customers could park there for free while they shopped and was not aware of the 90 minutes time limit.

When he told me I advised him to ignore it, having had a similar notice sent to me a few years ago from a McDonald's car park and never heard anything more after but I thought I had better check to be sure which I am so glad I did as I can see the rules have changed now.

I read advice from Manxred to a poster here on this forum and sent the template Manxred supplied word for word appealing to Athena (see below).


"Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing as registered keeper of the vehicle XXXX XXX, in reference to your Notice to Keeper (Ref: xxxxxxxxxx).

I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty.

Please cancel the ticket forthwith and confirm this by return. Alternatively please send me a POPLA code so that I may submit an appeal to the independent appeals service.

Yours,

XXXX XXXXX"




However, they have ignored my request for a POPLA code and replied with:



"Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email in regards to the above parking charge.

Can you please forward the grounds of your appeal.

We will then be able to adjudicate further.

Please do feel free to contact us with any other questions/queries you may have.

Regards

Athena ANPR Ltd"





Can someone advise whether I should give my reasons directly in reply to the above email from Athena or insist on the POPLA code first as I have my draft POPLA Appeal ready to go.

My father does not have any particular grounds for not paying only that he does not see why he should pay even the reduced extortionate fee of £45 for the privilege of shopping at LIDL for an extra 27 minutes plus he knows he does not have to pay after reading these forums himself.

I have attached a copy of the front and back of the NTK:





Front:



Back:






Any advice would be most appreciated.

Regards


KitKatKen
emanresu
Wait 35 days and then write back to say that as they failed to send the POPLA code, the appeal sent on ??? is deemed accepted. No further communication will be considered.
KitKatKen
Hello emanresu,

Thank you for your advice, however, can I ask, isn't it up to me to reply to them as they have requested on what grounds I am appealing so they can make a decision?

If I leave it 35 days won't they just increase the charge?

Many thanks for your time.


Regards


KitKatKen
Jlc
I'd say grounds for appeal have already been given - no financial loss.

Either wait the 35 days as suggested or remind them of This.

It's the game they play nowadays - stating that a 'valid' appeal hasn't been received so they don't have to issue a POPLA code, leaving no option (in their world) but to pay.
TheBigBad
I personally would just wait the 35 days if I were the keeper.

If your father is worried just write to them again

Dear Sirs

Thank you for your recent communication.

I am a little confused as to why you want me to forward you the grounds of my appeal when I have already done so. My previous letter contained the statement "I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty." I believe that this statement clearly outlines the basis of my appeal.

I would also like to remind you that The British Parking Association Ltd recently issued the following guidance to all of its members:

“the following practices may be considered as Code breaches and must not be continued:
• Asking the motorist to enter into additional correspondence to obtain a POPLA code
• Failing to include a correct and/or valid POPLA Code within the Rejection correspondence
• Issuing a POPLA Code with a date identifier which is significantly different from the date of rejection
• Appearing to indicate that the issue of a POPLA Code is conditional on driver details being supplied “

Whilst it is clear that your ability to understand and to interpret documents is clearly not your strongest attribute I am sure that even you can see that you either need to accept my appeal or reject and send me a POPLA code. I am more than happy for you to pay POPLA to tell you what I have already told you.

Please stop wasting my time.

Regards

Xxxxxxx

P.s the clock is ticking!

SchoolRunMum
I would send the above but maybe add to the first paragraph:

I am a little confused as to why you want me to forward you the grounds of my appeal when I have already done so. My previous letter contained the statement "I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty." I believe that this statement clearly outlines the basis of my appeal, which at POPLA stage will centre around the fact you are not the landowner and your charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss (both points which win at POPLA so you cannot pretend they are not worthy of consideration).
KitKatKen
Hello and thank you all for you wonderful advice.

I have just replied to Athena using TheBigBad's template and included SchoolRunMum's additional information.

I'll post their reply if or when it arrives.

Many many thanks again for all your support.



Regards


KitKat

biggrin.gif
KitKatKen
Hello everyone,

They cancelled the charge/!!!! laugh.gif

See their reply below:


"Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email in regards to the above parking charge.

Please be advised your charge has been cancelled and confirmation is attached

Regards

Athena ANPR Ltd"


That was much quicker than expected, thank you all who advised me on this matter, hopefully others will find this post useful. biggrin.gif


Regards


Kitkat
The Slithy Tove
Clearly they realised you were not going to be a pushover, and they knew they'd be wasting their £27 going to POPLA. Well done.
Sootee50
I've just sent one to Lidl following my daughter's advice that she got from here smile.gif I was only 16 minutes over time and had done a big shop in there!!! Grrrr angry.gif
This is it:-
"NAME
ADDRESS
ETC.

Athena ANPR Ltd
PO Box 306
CHERTSEY
KT16 6ED

2015

Dear Sirs
PCN No: 0 001 *** ***
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner;
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract and
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass.
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
© If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours "
Skiddaw
I trust you complained to Lidl HQ rather than just to Athena? Send complaint to Lidl HQ with copies of your receipts and it's pretty certain they will cancel if they have any sense.

If no luck start your own thread for any further advice.
aberto74
Today I recibed this replay, after send appeals, written in this Forum about parking LIDL.


This is an automated reply.

Thank you for your email. We have received your appeal and will contact you with a decision within 28 days.

Unless you have any new or additional grounds or reasons to support your appeal there is no further need to contact us until we reply to you.

The amount of the charge shall remain fixed whilst the appeal is being adjudicated upon.

We will contact you if we require any further clarification.



Any advice would be most appreciated.

Regards


nosferatu1001
Yes, get your own thread, as you agreed to do when you signed up

Not sure what help you can get, given we have literally no useful information other than you submitted an appeal

Hit REPORT on your post.
dinky-do
Hello all,
After a parking fee claim for 45/90 from Athena, I replied as suggested with the initial letter:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing as registered keeper of the vehicle XXXX XXX, in reference to your Notice to Keeper (Ref: xxxxxxxxxx).
I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty.
Please cancel the ticket forthwith and confirm this by return. Alternatively please send me a POPLA code so that I may submit an appeal to the independent appeals service.
Yours,
XXXX XXXXX"


I received a reply stating that my my appeal was unsuccessful as I have "made no effort to to indicate any substantive mitigating circumstances" and that "our appeals process is now exhausted"

There is no mention of POPLA.

Would I be correct in thinking that with no POPLA code that I wait 35 days from receipt of their letter and send a "no POPLA, not acted within BPA guidelines so no further correspondence" letter.


Letter attached.

Click to view attachment

Thanks
Jlc
QUOTE (dinky-do @ Tue, 7 Jun 2016 - 21:28) *
Would I be correct in thinking that with no POPLA code that I wait 35 days from receipt of their letter and send a "no POPLA, not acted within BPA guidelines so no further correspondence" letter.

Nope, you won't be getting a POPLA code from an IPC member.

The IAS details are in the letter. (Clue - they will almost certainly reject your appeal too)
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE (dinky-do @ Tue, 7 Jun 2016 - 21:28) *
Hello all,
After a parking fee claim for 45/90 from Athena, I replied as suggested with the initial letter:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing as registered keeper of the vehicle XXXX XXX, in reference to your Notice to Keeper (Ref: xxxxxxxxxx).
I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty.
Please cancel the ticket forthwith and confirm this by return. Alternatively please send me a POPLA code so that I may submit an appeal to the independent appeals service.
Yours,
XXXX XXXXX"


I received a reply stating that my my appeal was unsuccessful as I have "made no effort to to indicate any substantive mitigating circumstances" and that "our appeals process is now exhausted"

There is no mention of POPLA.

Would I be correct in thinking that with no POPLA code that I wait 35 days from receipt of their letter and send a "no POPLA, not acted within BPA guidelines so no further correspondence" letter.


Nope. This is a two year old archived thread about a firm that moved to the IPC almost a year ago!

On here and on MSE most of us do no suggest any further contact with an IPC member. Here's an answer on MSE today:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5475361

If you had instead read more recent Athena threads you would find a complaint email to the CEO of Lidl has more success, especially with a receipt.
downandout
sorry for hijacking, but is writing to CEO of Lidl still the way to go forward considering this is for ATHENA and the thread is over an year old? My NTK is from Vehicle Control Services UK for parking in 'prohibited area' at LIDL Derby?
nosferatu1001
Yes still the way to go
Dont hijack. Do as you agreed when signing up, and post in your OWN thread not a year old one. Pointless dredging this one iup.
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