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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] 61 in 50 - Dartford Crossing - Essex Police - Speed awareness course eligibilty?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Welsh Dan
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2014
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A282 trunk road, Dartford-Thurrock crossing
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - GFs car
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Travelling clockwise/southbound around the M25, from J23 > J7. Light traffic, good visibility, low wind. Wasn't heavy rain, if raining at all. Caught at 19.56 hours. Didn't seem to be overtaking everyone, and i'm sure I was at the right speed on the bridge. Not sure how far after the lowered speed limited that I was caught.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:45:36 +0000
peterguk
So just to clarify:

Your g/f received an NIP, she named you as the driver, and you have now received a S.172 in your own name?
Welsh Dan
Nearly. She received the NOIP, but has informed that it was me driving (which it was, no issues there.) As such, we can assume that i'll get the paperwork in the next few days.

I'm trying to find out whether i'm likely to be eligible for the Speed Awareness Course. I know that ACPO guidelines state 10% +9mph, which would cover the 61mph in the 50mph. I believe that this is on the lead up to the bridge, where the motorway speed limit ends, but i'm happy to be corrected. I have a clean licence, last having had points in August 2008 (long removed from my licence) and have not had a speed awareness course. I know that Essex Police offer the course, but do they adhere to the ACPO guidelines?
Logician
Essex are in the national scheme which means they operate the criteria you state, so I see no reason why you would not be offered the course. Best to reply promptly.
asg
I also received the same letter yesterday with same time frames, same place A282 Trunk road (dartford-thurrock crossing and approach roads), same speed 61 on 50mph, but slightly different time 19.25. I am very surprised as don't feel I was going over limit. My letter states Notice of intention to Prosecute. I do have previous points on my licence (both 58mph, on a 50mph in Newham, which happened in a short period and my only points over a 17 years).
Although I have never been offered a speed awareness course, I presume I am still not eligible as I have points on my licence.
Jlc
QUOTE (asg @ Sat, 11 Jan 2014 - 10:56) *
I presume I am still not eligible as I have points on my licence.

The only factors are the speed and whether a course has been taken in the last 3 years - previous points doesn't matter. (Of course the course is discretionary and they don't have to offer one)

Just to add that not feeling that you've exceeded the limit is a defence. It's unlikely to be wrong - unless you have something concrete then accept the course.
asg
Hi thanks. Yes I don't think I would have the time and energy to appeal anyway. Regarding previous points, I still currently have the points that I mentioned on my licence, due to expire in a few months. Will that still make me eligible given I have never had a course before? I'm hoping that a course will be offered, although I am now surprised that I was not offered one when I first received a fixed penalty points, maybe Newham don't offer them?
Jlc
Should be offered...
Kickaha
QUOTE (asg @ Sat, 11 Jan 2014 - 10:56) *
I also received the same letter yesterday with same time frames, same place A282 Trunk road (dartford-thurrock crossing and approach roads), same speed 61 on 50mph, but slightly different time 19.25. I am very surprised as don't feel I was going over limit. My letter states Notice of intention to Prosecute. I do have previous points on my licence (both 58mph, on a 50mph in Newham, which happened in a short period and my only points over a 17 years).
Although I have never been offered a speed awareness course, I presume I am still not eligible as I have points on my licence.

Start your own thread and stop hijacking this one.
asg
Sorry can I ask another question. Why was I given a Notice of Intention to prosecute first (28 days), rather than the Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP - 14 days). I received my letter only 2 days after the actual date of offence.
Jlc
QUOTE (asg @ Sat, 11 Jan 2014 - 11:55) *
Sorry can I ask another question. Why was I given a Notice of Intention to prosecute first (28 days), rather than the Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP - 14 days). I received my letter only 2 days after the actual date of offence.

Start your own thread now...
Welsh Dan
RIghto.

I've now received the NOIP, with my details on instead of my GF's. At the moment, its the 'confirm you were the driver, your DL number etc.' and they don't want any payment or the licence. In the FAQs
attachment, it says "if you qualify for a speed awareness course, you will automatically be offered this opportunity. If you have not had this offer sent to you, then you do not qualify."

I've not been offered it, but at what stage does the course get offered? After I've confirmed it was me driving?
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Welsh Dan @ Sat, 25 Jan 2014 - 10:12) *
After I've confirmed it was me driving?

Correct.
Welsh Dan
Received the letter from Essex Police, who have confirmed that i'm eligible for the Speed Awareness Course, which i'll be taking. Thanks everyone!
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