Hi all,

I'm new to this so apologies in advance if I'm not posting in the right way. A friend of mine told me about this website.

I received a "contractual parking charge notice" a couple of days ago, which i have attached to this post.
I overstayed in a Homebase car park by 11 minutes.

I'd be really grateful if somebody could advise me as to whether there's any way I can contest this and what my chances of not having to paying it are. Or is it better to pay it within 14 days to pay £60 instead of the full £100?

I didn't have space to upload p. 2 but it shows the BPA membership

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Marie

G24 still [s]lying like dogs as to what PoFA says[s] misrepresenting PoFa.
Look at other G24 threads to get your head around the issues.

I think this misrepresentation is a violation of CPUTR
see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry805190

Were you a customer that day?

Do you still have a receipt/bank statement showing you spent money in there that day?

If so, the branch manager is your first port of call, preferably around the checkouts in a loud voice I find gets the right results.

He/she has the power to cancel the ticket.

Yes definitely appeal to them directly, then when they refuse they give you a POPLA code. Come back for more advice on how to win at POPLA and then the ticket will be cancelled.

Send them the following:

"John Doe
[Address Details]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re. your parking charge notice XYZ I can confirm I was the Keeper of the vehicle on the date of the alleged breach.

I am appealing against this charge since you have failed to provide

a) that your interest in the land is sufficient to offer contracts and particularly that you are not just a trespasser
b) that you have entered into a valid contract with the driver
c) that you validly incorporated the terms that you are claiming give you the right to levy the charge
d) that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of your losses and not just an unenforceable penalty
e) that you have complied with all strict requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to constitute Keeper Liability against me.

I thus expect you to cancel this charge immediately and confirm this in writing.

Otherwise I am expecting you to provide me with the means to refer this matter to independent arbitration.

Yours faithfully,

XYZ"

As the pictures show you entering/leaving they can't prove you were parked for all that time
They do prove you WERE'NT parked for all that time

Thank you all for your replies. Much appreciated.

I wondered whether the letter that matt285 suggests has been tried before and what the chances of success are. Also if i contest, does it jeopardise my being able to pay the reduced amount of £60 vs £100 as it would take me past the 14 days? Does anyone know?

Also to clarify I didn't actually shop at Homebase that day, so no receipt to shop for it, simply used the car park facility.

Many thanks in advance of your replies.

Kind regards

As you'll be paying £0 why does it matter?

Remember the only purpose of the 'early discount' is to try and get you to pay rather than challenging. It's a mind-game. However, what normally happens is that the amount should not be increased if you appeal within the 14 days and when they reject they will probably repeat the generous offer. With this rejection they should issue a POPLA code and they will state that the discount will be lost if you do appeal to POPLA. (But with the right words your appeal will be upheld)

I suggest that you read this excellent primer on private parking tickets posted on MSE by Coupon-Mad who posts on here as SchoolRunMum http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

Hi there,

Many thanks again for all your input. I sent the letter to G24 Ltd to contest the parking charge using the wording that Matt suggested in an earlier post. I've now got their reply including the POPLA verification code. They're saying that my constesting the charge isn't applicable and they reply to each point raised in my letter. I would like to be able to show you the reply but the system won't allow me to upload it for some reason.

I'm very uncertain to have any ground to appeal with POPLA and according to their letter if I appeal I loose the possibility to pay £60 instead of £100.

What's your experience of this?

Thank you in advance for replying.
All the best,
Marie

I can't see the attachments, but our experience is that they tell fibs about your chances at POPLA, because we have a 100% success record with appeals.

Losing the chance to pay £60 is irrelevant when you'll end up paying £0.

Have a look at the Completed Cases sub forum for some example POPLA appeals and the level of success we achieve.

Also, G24 don't even do court anyway.

Thank you for your replies. I'm looking to appeal with POPLA but could somebody advise me as to what reasons I can give for any chance of success please?
i did go over the stated time for free parking by 11 minutes! but think that £100 to pay is too steep for 11 minutes. I didn't actually use the shop, so don't have any receipt to show for it.

Read the Completed cases.

You have to have GPEOL, Contract, Signage and penalty.

If their signs are difficult to read, there is no contract.
If they themselves have no contract/capacity they themselves cannot offer a contract
If they are claiming breach then they can only claim for a loss flowing from the breach. Anything else is a penalty.
If they claim contractual charge, you claim it is a penalty as their construct of the contract demonstrates this

Thank you for the advice, read some cases and here is the wording of the appeal i intend to send to POPLA. Would appreciate if somebody could let me know whether it's good enough and should be successful in your experience

"Popla ref xxxxxxxxx
G24 Ltd.
PCN noxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reg xxxxxx
Location
On the xxxxxxxx, G24 Ltd issued a parking charge notice because the above vehicle was allegedly recorded on their automatic number plate recognition system as having stayed in the location for 11 minutes over the 90 permitted free parking.

My Appeal.
1. The amount of the charge is disproportionate to the loss incurred by G24 Ltd and is punitive, contravening the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. I also consider the PCN to be a penalty because G24 Ltd have alleged a breach of terms and conditions and yet have not quantified their alleged loss (which cannot include business running costs nor the POPLA fee).
2. I do not believe that the Operator has specifically demonstrated a proprietary interest in the land, because they have no legal possession which would give G24 Ltd any right to offer parking spaces, let alone allege a contract with third party customers of the lawful owner/occupiers. In addition, G24 Ltd's lack of title in this land means they have no legal standing to allege trespass or loss, if that is the basis of their charge. I require G24 Ltd to demonstrate their legal ownership of the land to POPLA.
3. I contend that G24 Ltd are only an agent working for the owner and their signs do not help them to form a contract without any consideration capable of being offered. VCS -v- HMRC 2012 is the binding decision in the Upper Chamber which covers this issue with compelling statements of fact about this sort of business model.
4. I believe there is no contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles them to levy these charges and therefore has no authority to issue parking charge notices (PCNs). This being the case, the burden of proof shifts to G24 Ltd to prove otherwise so I require that G24 Ltd produce a copy of their contract with the owner/occupier and that the POPLA adjudicator scrutinises it.
5. Even if a basic contract is produced and mentions PCNs, the lack of ownership or assignment of title or interest in the land reduces any contract to one that exists simply on an agency basis between G24 Ltd and the owner/occupier, containing nothing that G24 Ltd can lawfully use in their own name as a mere agent, that could impact on a third party customer.
6. The BPA code of practice contains the following:
21 Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)
21.1 You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce
parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable,
consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell
drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the
data captured by ANPR cameras for.
21.2 Quality checks: before you issue a parking charge notice you must carry
out a manual quality check of the ANPR images to reduce errors and
make sure that it is appropriate to take action. Full details of the items
you should check are listed in the Operators’ Handbook.
21.3 You must keep any ANPR equipment you use in your car parks in good
working order. You need to make sure the data you are collecting is
accurate, securely held and cannot be tampered with. The processes that
you use to manage your ANPR system may be audited by our
compliance team or our agents.
21.4 It is also a condition of the Code that, if you receive and process vehicle
or registered keeper data, you must:
• be registered with the Information Commissioner
• keep to the Data Protection Act
• follow the DVLA requirements concerning the data
• follow the guidelines from the Information Commissioner’s Office on
the use of CCTV and ANPR cameras, and on keeping and sharing
personal data such as vehicle registration marks.
21.5 If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4
of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge
notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place,
your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict requirements and timetable
set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9).
I have had no evidence that G24 Ltd have complied with these BPA Code requirements for ANPR issued tickets so require them to evidence their compliance to POPLA.

I submit this purported charge is not legal and G24 Ltd should cease harassing me forthwith.
I thank you for your time and look forward to hearing from you in due course
Regards,"

In one get the works "not a genuine pre-estimate of loss" e.g

The amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and is disproportionate to the ....

The scan for this phrase and makes it quicker for them to process the appeals. Make it simple for them.

Thank you Emanresu, I've added the phrase to paragraph 1 as you suggest. Much appreciated.
Is my reply now ready to go? I'm not a legal person as I'm sure you gather and find these things quite stressful so would appreciate some more re-assurance.
Thank you in advance.

If you haven't sent it off to POPLA yet, I would add an 'unclear signage' paragraph as well, to make them show evidence & maps which they may get wrong! Like the one here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...75#post64527275 (feel free to use any of that wording too - as I wrote it and it can be adapted to your case)

...and I would fish this paragraph (below) out from where it is buried among the ANPR section and bring it up to be a higher point of its own which starts as I have edited it, because your Notice was not deemed received in time for any keeper liability, you will be pleased to hear!

G24 Ltd have not complied with the requirements of POFA2012 because they have not sent the Notice to Keeper in time. A NTK dated Saturday 28th December is not deemed posted until Monday and so not deemed to be given until Thursday 2nd January which is 17 days after the alleged parking event. Too late for 'keeper liability' so the NTK was not properly 'given' under Schedule 4, paragraph 9 of POFA2012 and as such it is a nullity and I am not liable. The BPA Code of Practice reminds AOS members about this strict timetable:

21.5 If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4
of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge
notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place,
your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict requirements and timetable
set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9).

Thank you all those who have replied for your suggestions, I would have been lost without it. I have now sent my appeal and will let you know the outcome.

Thank you so much to all who have helped. i won the appeal on the ground that "the operator had failed to produce sufficient evidence to refute the appellant's submission that it did not have authority to issue a parking charge notice." Hope this encourages others to appeal.

Many thanks for the update and congatulations