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boner
I have just signed on today to Pee pi poo

History of recent NIP:-

1.  The offence was in England
2.  Dorset Constabulary
3.  Date of the offence = 01.11.05
4.  Date of the NIP = 11.11.05
5.  Date received NIP = 16.11.05 (postmarked 14.11.05)
6.  The NIP was addressed to me correctly
7.  First Class Post (0029 on envelope franked)
8.  I am the registered keeper, name & address as licence, some small changes to address, probably negligable
9.  UK Licence held
10.Nine current points - 1st expiry 02.08.06 (3 years since conviction) all from sp30's.

11.Driving towards traffic lights at night 19.03 hrs on 01.11.05, in my local area, large camera took pic from behind with flash, NIP 36mph in 30 area.
patdavies
I would suggest that a NIP postmarked 14th could not have been served in term - ie within 14 days.

Franked mail is franked by the sender (the scammers) prior to collection by Royal Mail, so the NIP was not sent until 14th at the earliest (which is day 13).  The OP has only to rebutt the service by testifying that the NIP did not arrive until 16th (day 15).

This does not, of course, obviate the need for a response to the S172 request.
firefly
Eeek!  This one's very touch-and-go in my view.

If the envelope was postmarked for one-day later then I'd say you were lead pipe solid - but as it stands I think it's in the balance.  Sending it out franked on day 13 (presumably the post goes out at close of play) and hoping it gets there the following day is taking a big chance.

If you received it on the 16th then you didn't get it within the required time-frame.  The job you will have, of course, is convincing the court that you are "not to be convicted" because the police didn't send out the NIP so that it may reach you, in the normal course of post, within 14-days.  The scammers will say it was sent out in time (i.e. on day 13), and it's not their fault it took 2-days to reach you.  You will claim it is unreasonable to assume a letter posted on day 13 (at 5pm) will reach its intended target the next day.

Case law does, in my view, support your position (to a certain extent). Nicholson v Tapp:

QUOTE
<...> it would be open to the prosecution to post a letter one minute before midnight on the 14th day. That clearly would mean that, in the ordinary course of post, the addressee would not receive it until the 15th or even the 16th day. If that amendment had been intended to extend the period of time where the procedure of using the Post Office facilities were adopted it would have said so in very clear language. In my judgment all the amendment created by Schedule 4 to the Act of 1962 did was to prevent a defendant establishing that, although a document had been despatched in time enough to reach him in the ordinary course of post within the statutory 14 days, de facto it had not done so.

As I said, though, it's very close to call.
TINBASHER
Boner,
        Do you have a history of late post? can you or any of your family cite any other cases recently of late post? Any proof etc it MAY help if you produce this to the court to prove you are not telling porkies.

Regards TB
boner
Thanks for your advice guys. Its much appreciated

I wonder as its not completely watertight (although a good defence) if I should go for the PACE route first or even at the same time as a late served NIP?

Boner
boner
Thanks for your advice guys. Its much appreciated

I wonder as its not completely watertight (although a good defence) if I should go for the PACE route first or even at the same time as a late served NIP?

Boner
Goose
What was wrong with the address?
If it was the postcode it can get spat out of the system and reprocessed, which might take extra time.
I used to work as a courier,not royal mail but similar, and wobblers got left to go with next delivery.
Not sure if this would be relevant but am sure someone here would know.
The Rookie
I personally would use the PACE statement to satisfy the S172, but add a paragraph at the end similar to the RAC letter to the effect that you recognise the NIP is out of date...

Franking in the Scamera office on the 14th doesn't mean it went in the post on the 14th, it could have been franked at the end of the day and then posted the next day.....(my old Co used to get the post collected at 1:30, so everything franked after that didn't get collected until 1:30 the next day! thats about 40% of our post)

Simon
TINBASHER
Boner, I agree with Rookie, use your 28 days, use Pace, Gather your evidence with regards to late post and add the paragraph at the end similar to the RAC letter to the effect that you recognise the NIP is out of date.

Good luck TB
boner
Thanks guys

Is the PACE route still effective, I read it is with the Met, but someone got two summonses for s172 and speeding after using PACE

Consulted with my better half? and she has reminded me the road we live in is constituted mainly of flats. Its a holiday area, with an average lived in occupancy rate of 33%. The rest are holiday homes.

We constantly have post delivered for other flats, and conversely have our post ,now and again, not delivered or late, due to the postmen delivering to the wrong block of flats.

I think I should gather some of this evidence! How about photocopies of the envelope of other flat's post?

Cheers

Boner
The Rookie
I'm not sure that would be admissable evidence, the key bit is you standing up and swearing under oath hat the NIP did not arrive in time, the Scamera's own dates make it very marginal.

As for PACE, of course they are issuing summons, they don't want to many people to realise they don't need to incrimante hemselves. Its all part of he B&B to get you to fold!

Simon
boner
Thanks Rookie
Therefore I should stick to PACE and hold my corner. Do you know the average length of time a court case takes to be heard on a NIP?

Has anyone any experience of Dorset constabulary with NIPs?

Boner
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