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lollipop11
I clipped a car recently in a retail park car park where the car was parked quite far over in its space. It was dark but there were lamp posts so I had a good look and there didn't appear to be any damage, just a bit of plastic dust from my bumper (which has a tiny scratch on it now). I gave the other car a good wipe down and the dust came off so I thought it was fine. However, I thought I'd wait to see if the owner came back for me to inform them out of courtesy and just in case - seeing as it was dark. I couldn't see anyone coming and it was cold so thought I'd pop in the shop where I needed to buy things and hopefully catch the owner on my way out.

When I returned, the owner was still nowhere to be seen, even though I had been a while. I was a bit unsure what to do. I had another good look at their bumper, couldn't see any damage. I was getting cold and had assumed they must be an employee at one of the shops as it had been quite some time by now so I decided to go and get pen and paper and write a note for the owner. When I came back, the car had gone. I went into the shop we had both been parked outside and handed in the note and took the name of the staff member I gave it to.

A few days later, I received an NIP with 3 offences on it
1. Failure to stop
2. Failure to leave details
3. Careless driving

I phoned the police as soon as I received the NIP and explained what happened and the officer I spoke to told me not to worry too much as it was just a standard process to list those 3 offences and just to return the forms with a statement explaining what had happened and that I had left my details. However he also said (understandably) that he couldn't adviss if that would be enough to prevent prosecution. He also told me I should have phoned them anyway after it happened. This seems contradictory to what they had told me in the past when another driver hit me and injured me, left my car almost a write off and when I phoned the police they refused to attend and told me they didn't need to know about it as it was a matter for my insurance company to sort out.

What really puzzles me is that the NIP had my details and reg number but gave a possible time of all day and two possible locations - one that I'm guessing is the person's work address if they were there all day, and a shop down the other end of the retail park I was parked in. Surely if they have my reg number, they either did get my details from the shop and are lying or somebody saw and gave them my details. Either way, something seems a bit fishy to me if they knew it was me but were so vague about the time and location.

My questions are:
1. Is there a 'best way' to provide the ststement? Do I give a brief account or shall I give a detailed account of everything as it happened?
2. Is it normal to have the reg number but not know the time and location?
3. Am I entitled to ask how they have my reg number? (So, if it was from the details I left I can prove I did leave my details)
4. Does it seem a bit fishy to you? I'm wondering if maybe they've had another bump that they're going to try and take advantagd of me over (seeing as they named a shop at the other end of the car park and a location I never been to and a time period of almost 12 hours)
5. Can I be prosecuted for any of the offences seeing as the car was poorly parked, I was at the scene for almost an hour, and left my details with the shop?

Any other advice or info before I post my response would be much appreciated.

Thank you

ETA The police force is Thames Valley - I don't know it this is info you might need as I know different forces can take different approaches.
lollipop11
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2013
Date of the NIP: - 1 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - It doesn't specify an exact location
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I clipped a car recently in a retail park car park where the car was parked quite far over in its space. It was dark but there were lamp posts so I had a good look and there didn't appear to be any damage, just a bit of plastic dust from my bumper (which has a tiny scratch on it now). I gave the other car a good wipe down and the dust came off so I thought it was fine. However, I thought I'd wait to see if the owner came back for me to inform them out of courtesy and just in case - seeing as it was dark. I couldn't see anyone coming and it was cold so thought I'd pop in the shop where I needed to buy things and hopefully catch the owner on my way out.

When I returned, the owner was still nowhere to be seen, even though I had been a while. I was a bit unsure what to do. I had another good look at their bumper, couldn't see any damage. I was getting cold and had assumed they must be an employee at one of the shops as it had been quite some time by now so I decided to go and get pen and paper and write a note for the owner. When I came back, the car had gone. I went into the shop we had both been parked outside and handed in the note and took the name of the staff member I gave it to.

A few days later, I received an NIP with 3 offences on it
1. Failure to stop
2. Failure to leave details
3. Careless driving

I phoned the police as soon as I received the NIP and explained what happened and the officer I spoke to told me not to worry too much as it was just a standard process to list those 3 offences and just to return the forms with a statement explaining what had happened and that I had left my details. However he also said (understandably) that he couldn't adviss if that would be enough to prevent prosecution. He also told me I should have phoned them anyway after it happened. This seems contradictory to what they had told me in the past when another driver hit me and injured me, left my car almost a write off and when I phoned the police they refused to attend and told me they didn't need to know about it as it was a matter for my insurance company to sort out.

What really puzzles me is that the NIP had my details and reg number but gave a possible time of all day and two possible locations - one that I'm guessing is the person's work address if they were there all day, and a shop down the other end of the retail park I was parked in. Surely if they have my reg number, they either did get my details from the shop and are lying or somebody saw and gave them my details. Either way, something seems a bit fishy to me if they knew it was me but were so vague about the time and location.

My questions are:
1. Is there a 'best way' to provide the ststement? Do I give a brief account or shall I give a detailed account of everything as it happened?
2. Is it normal to have the reg number but not know the time and location?
3. Am I entitled to ask how they have my reg number? (So, if it was from the details I left I can prove I did leave my details)
4. Does it seem a bit fishy to you? I'm wondering if maybe they've had another bump that they're going to try and take advantagd of me over (seeing as they named a shop at the other end of the car park and a location I never been to and a time period of almost 12 hours)
5. Can I be prosecuted for any of the offences seeing as the car was poorly parked, I was at the scene for almost an hour, and left my details with the shop?

Any other advice or info before I post my response would be much appreciated.

Thank you


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:32:49 +0000
southpaw82
You did not exchange details at the scene. You were therefore required to report the accident to the police (assuming there was damage). You did not do so. The offence of fail to report looks to be complete. All you can do now is give your details as requested. The police may simply pass them on for the insurance to sort out. Or they may prosecute you. You'll have to wait and see.
lollipop11
Seems really unfair seeing as I was following the information I had been given by the police when somebody else hit me. Also, my understanding was that when there is no damage - which I honestly don't believe there was - that there is no requirement to leave details or inform the police.

Are you able to answer my other questions?
StuartBu
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 12:33) *
You did not exchange details at the scene. You were therefore required to report the accident to the police (assuming there was damage). You did not do so. The offence of fail to report looks to be complete. All you can do now is give your details as requested. The police may simply pass them on for the insurance to sort out. Or they may prosecute you. You'll have to wait and see.

So are you saying that leaving a note with contact details does not mean "exchanging details"

Also you say "assuming there is damage"... in this case there seems some doubt that there was any damage.
southpaw82
If there is no damage then (barring injury etc) there is no accident in law. However, the fact you were leaving your details tends to suggest you knew or suspected there was damage. You'll have to wait and see what happens. As to your other questions

1. Don't do it yet.

2. No.

3. No.

4. No.

5. Yes.

QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 12:46) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 12:33) *
You did not exchange details at the scene. You were therefore required to report the accident to the police (assuming there was damage). You did not do so. The offence of fail to report looks to be complete. All you can do now is give your details as requested. The police may simply pass them on for the insurance to sort out. Or they may prosecute you. You'll have to wait and see.

So are you saying that leaving a note with contact details does not mean "exchanging details"

Also you say "assuming there is damage"... in this case there seems some doubt that there was any damage.


He didn't exchange details with the other party though, did he?
lollipop11
I honestly didn't believe there to be any damage. I just felt it would be rude not to tell the owner as I know I'd want somebody to tell me if they had clipped my car.

I didn't exchange details because I couldn't find the owner. I went to get pen and paper and they'd already gone by the time I returned with the note. I wasn't exactly going to wait there all night for the owner!

I didn't call the police because a) I didn't believe there was any damage and b) they told me when somebody hit me that there was no need to contact them and that it was a matter for the insurers.
sgtdixie
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 13:18) *
I honestly didn't believe there to be any damage. I just felt it would be rude not to tell the owner as I know I'd want somebody to tell me if they had clipped my car.

I am afraid to tell you that if you tell a court the efforts you went to in order to trace the driver it is highly likely they will simply not believe you were unaware there was damage caused.
lollipop11
It wasn't really a huge effort. I spent some time inspecting the car, waited a few minutes, did my shopping, waited a few minutes more, then went to get a pen and paper. How depressing that my desire to be helpful and honesty could end up being detrimental to how a court would see me!

Even more worried now you mention court. I was hoping the police would just pass on my insurance details.
The Rookie
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 13:33) *
It wasn't really a huge effort. I spent some time inspecting the car, waited a few minutes, did my shopping, waited a few minutes more, then went to get a pen and paper. How depressing that my desire to be helpful and honesty could end up being detrimental to how a court would see me!

The problem is that the law is quite clear, exchange or report, and you failed to do either, so your helpfulness and honesty fell short of the minimum required by law and wasn't in fact at all helpful to the other party anyway!
southpaw82
It would be for the prosecution to prove there had been an accident. In this case, they would have to prove damage. If this goes to court you'll have to wait and see what the evidence is. I would imagine it will be direct evidence from the other vehicle's owner/driver as to the damage caused plus the circumstantial evidence of you wanting to exchange details. That's quite aside from any due care issue of you hitting a stationary vehicle.
jobo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 14:12) *
<br />
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 13:33) *
It wasn't really a huge effort. I spent some time inspecting the car, waited a few minutes, did my shopping, waited a few minutes more, then went to get a pen and paper. How depressing that my desire to be helpful and honesty could end up being detrimental to how a court would see me!
<br />The problem is that the law is quite clear, exchange or report, and you failed to do either, so your helpfulness and honesty fell short of the minimum required by law and wasn't in fact at all helpful to the other party anyway!<br />
<br /><br /><br />

people keep saying there is a requirement to EXCHANGE details and there is not, there is a requirement to provide details to those who( reasonably) require them, unless there is some case law to the contrary, there is a point to argue that if the other driver did indeed get his details from the shop then they were infact provided ?


OP ive notice that the definition of ''damage''varies from the hiter to the hitee. your point that there was no( discernible) damage might stand you in goodstead IF it is microscopic, if on the other hand its a significant gouge then poroberbly not
southpaw82
There may well be a point to argue but it is a weak one. The requirement is to provide details to a person who has reason to demand them. That is not the shop. There is a mechanism in place to deal with situations where that isn't done and that is a report to the police. This also assumes that the details given to the shop were all of the details required by law.
Kieran_e1
surely the question is how did the police get your details?? If from the other car which you hit , how did they get them?? If they got them from the shop you left them at then you have successfully left details no?

If they got it from CCTV on the car park this should surely give a timeline to support your version of events?
StuartBu
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 12:47) *
He didn't exchange details with the other party though, did he?


In this case no he didn't get the chance ..that was my point ..is it sufficient to leave a note ( if the car is still there ) cos I guess in those circs ( well perhaps if you were lucky) most reasonable folk would leave a note .

Then again most reasonable folk on finding minimal damage and no note wouldn't consider reporting it to the Police ( although if claiming on insurance the insurers might insist on it )

We obviously still don't know how the other owner got the OPs details ..Did he get the note from the shop and how did the note get related to the other owner?..Why ,if he got the note didn't he contact OP instead of the Police ..all a mystery .
lollipop11
That's exactly what I said to the police officer I spoke to. If they have my reg then I would assume they either got my details from the shop or there was a witness/CCTV. How else would they know it was me? In any of those cases, surely they would know the time and location of the accident. The NIP has a time window of almost 12 hours and two locations, one which I've never been to and the other which was down the other end of the car park. That's the bit that doesn't make sense. How would they have my details but not know when and where it happened?

It makes me slightly suspicious of the intentions of the other driver to be honest.

QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 14:38) *
OP ive notice that the definition of ''damage''varies from the hiter to the hitee. your point that there was no( discernible) damage might stand you in goodstead IF it is microscopic, if on the other hand its a significant gouge then poroberbly not


No it doesn't vary. I looked at the bumper of the other car and there were some bits of plastic/paint from my car bumper. I checked my bumper just to be sure that's what it was and sure enough, there was a very minor scratch that had created some plastic/paint dust. I went back to the other car's bumper and wiped it off. I gave it a wipe and looked from top to bottom, I am certain there wasn't even a scratch on their bumper. I wish I had taken a photo now.
jobo
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 14:47) *
<br />There may well be a point to argue but it is a weak one. The requirement is to provide details to a person who has reason to demand them. That is not the shop. There is a mechanism in place to deal with situations where that isn't done and that is a report to the police. This also assumes that the details given to the shop were all of the details required by law.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

yes possibly weak ? the point id make is it isnt in the interest of justice to convict someone who has met the objective of a law, in this case provide sufficient information, so that a claim for damages can be made, just because they hadnt followed the specified process in doing so

just as it wouldn't be if some one did provide their name and address but did not include the address of say LEX leasing et al as that is also part of the specified process
The Rookie
Or they spotted your car whilst it was parked........
jobo
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 15:35) *
<br />That's exactly what I said to the police officer I spoke to. If they have my reg then I would assume they either got my details from the shop or there was a witness/CCTV. How else would they know it was me? In any of those cases, surely they would know the time and location of the accident. The NIP has a time window of almost 12 hours and two locations, one which I've never been to and the other which was down the other end of the car park. That's the bit that doesn't make sense. How would they have my details but not know when and where it happened? <br /><br />It makes me slightly suspicious of the intentions of the other driver to be honest.<br /><br />
QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 14:38) *
OP ive notice that the definition of ''damage''varies from the hiter to the hitee. your point that there was no( discernible) damage might stand you in goodstead IF it is microscopic, if on the other hand its a significant gouge then poroberbly not
<br /><br />No it doesn't vary. I looked at the bumper of the other car and there were some bits of plastic/paint from my car bumper. I checked my bumper just to be sure that's what it was and sure enough, there was a very minor scratch that had created some plastic/paint dust. I went back to the other car's bumper and wiped it off. I gave it a wipe and looked from top to bottom, I am certain there wasn't even a scratch on their bumper. I wish I had taken a photo now.<br />
<br /><br /><br />


OK lets analysise this
either
they got your note at the time
or someone saw you and told them
or someone put a note on their car
or they found damage and went back and got your note
or found damage and went and got CCTV

if as you say there was no damage we can discount the last two, it would also give them an exact location which they havent got


if someone told them or they got your note it would also give an exact location


that only leaves someone else note on the car saying XYZ 123 hit you, but not saying where, leaving them to guess one of a number of possible locations where it could have happened
lollipop11
I hadn't considered somebody else leaving a note on their car. However I would have thought I'd have seen it myself before I went to get pen and paper to write a note.

Oh well, I guess I'll never know. It just seems incredibly harsh to convict somebody of any or all of those offences for clipping a car on the bumper - even if I didn't get it quite right in terms of how I left my details. If there was ill intention I wouldn't have hung around doing my shopping and leaving a note in the shop! My understanding was that the offences are there to deal with hit and runs and more serious offences.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help/thoughts.

Based on what you've said I shall send a brief reply querying the time and location and stating I left a note with the shop and then await my fate. sad5.gif
The Rookie
Or they came and spotted the damage before driving off while you were off getting pen and paper, arguably the most likely scenario?
crashdetective
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 17:00) *
I hadn't considered somebody else leaving a note on their car. However I would have thought I'd have seen it myself before I went to get pen and paper to write a note.

Oh well, I guess I'll never know. It just seems incredibly harsh to convict somebody of any or all of those offences for clipping a car on the bumper - even if I didn't get it quite right in terms of how I left my details. If there was ill intention I wouldn't have hung around doing my shopping and leaving a note in the shop! My understanding was that the offences are there to deal with hit and runs and more serious offences.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help/thoughts.

Based on what you've said I shall send a brief reply querying the time and location and stating I left a note with the shop and then await my fate. sad5.gif


Mobile phone, most have one. Ring police and tell them what has happened. Takes 2 mins easy peasy. Messing about with notes and walking back and forwards, not particularly convincing.
StuartBu
QUOTE (crashdetective @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 18:36) *
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 17:00) *
I hadn't considered somebody else leaving a note on their car. However I would have thought I'd have seen it myself before I went to get pen and paper to write a note.

Oh well, I guess I'll never know. It just seems incredibly harsh to convict somebody of any or all of those offences for clipping a car on the bumper - even if I didn't get it quite right in terms of how I left my details. If there was ill intention I wouldn't have hung around doing my shopping and leaving a note in the shop! My understanding was that the offences are there to deal with hit and runs and more serious offences.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help/thoughts.

Based on what you've said I shall send a brief reply querying the time and location and stating I left a note with the shop and then await my fate. sad5.gif


Mobile phone, most have one. Ring police and tell them what has happened. Takes 2 mins easy peasy. Messing about with notes and walking back and forwards, not particularly convincing.

TWO minutes?? Last time I went to a Cop Shop to report a dog assaulting my car and the owner starting to chase after me took a lot longer than that with the amount of detail on the form the guy filled in.
lollipop11
Crashdetective as I have mentioned several times, when somebody drove into me, and it was a fairly serious crash, I phoned TVP and they told me that there was no need to inform them. My view was that if they weren't interested in my car nearly being a write-off on a busy main road, they weren't going to be interested in an incident with no visible damage. And let's be serious for a moment, how many people would honestly phone the police over what was literally a slight contact between bumpers?! If every single time that happened, the police were called, they'd have no time for anything else.

The Rookie, I thought about that but if so, why did they not have the correct time or location?
The Rookie
They weren't interested in the first case as details had been provided........
lollipop11
We're just going round in circles now. I came here for some advice, not a lecture about what I should have done - which is of no help anyway because I don't have a time machine!
sgtdixie
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 20:34) *
And let's be serious for a moment, how many people would honestly phone the police over what was literally a slight contact between bumpers?!

Being serious; how many people who had a slight contact with no damage would go looking for the other driver and leave their details with someone.

Whilst the careless driving and fail to supply/report is legally made out as details were left with someone who has no connection with the vehicle and the OP hit another stationary vehicle; when the Police assess such incidents they look for 'good faith' in drivers actions and accounts. It simply isn't credible for the OP to take the position he has. In cases where the Police believe, rightly or wrongly, a driver is not telling the truth the chances of a prosecution rise significantly.
lollipop11
I didn't 'go looking', I looked around from where I was standing to see if they might be heading back towards their car.

Being serious, some people in life do go out of their way to be helpful and treat others how they wish to be treated. You're talking to one of those people. It's a real shame that is so hard for you to believe.
StuartBu
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 22:46) *
We're just going round in circles now. I came here for some advice, not a lecture about what I should have done - which is of no help anyway because I don't have a time machine!

Its a molehill that some are turning in hto a huge mountain!!!!
lollipop11
Thanks StuartaBu. When I spoke to the police on the phone after I received the NIP I was quite upset but he tried to reassure me saying it was a standard form & that lots are issued and not always seen through to prosecution. I came here just looking for advice on what to expect etc and instead I'm now feeling really anxious. All over my bumper touching that of another car.
David_R
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 22:47) *
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 20:34) *
And let's be serious for a moment, how many people would honestly phone the police over what was literally a slight contact between bumpers?!

Being serious; how many people who had a slight contact with no damage would go looking for the other driver and leave their details with someone.

I have done in the past. Just bumped another car while pulling out of a car parking space, there's no real damage, but it's courteous to make sure that the other driver/owner is also of the opinion that it's of no concern. When this happened the other driver was really appreciative that I had stayed and asked his opinion. He agreed that it was an irrelevant tiny nick on his bumper, and he didn't really care.

Turned out he was a Police officer.
Pete D
"I have mentioned several times, when somebody drove into me, and it was a fairly serious crash, I phoned TVP and they told me that there was no need to inform them."

Yes but you most probably both stopped and exchanged details. Thus no requirement to report the accident. Pete D
Mattd
When I have had similar a minor bumps rather than mess around if there has been no one at scene to give details to I haversng in on 101, explained the circumstances giving all relevant detail and explaining I am making my way to a police station. That stands in good stead in case as you drive off a Good Samaritan rings in to say you at leaving the scene having not bothered to approach you. It's a pity we feel the need to cover ourselves so much these days but we do.
The Rookie
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 23:52) *
All over my bumper touching that of another car.

While I understand what you are saying, this is not the case, the issue is over you not giving details or reporting, the law treats this the same whether the damage is infintesimal or if you had caused a multi car pileup, much like perverting the course of justice is treated the same whether it's a murder enquiry or a speeding ticket.
jobo
QUOTE (Mattd @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:28) *
When I have had similar a minor bumps rather than mess around if there has been no one at scene to give details to I haversng in on 101, explained the circumstances giving all relevant detail and explaining I am making my way to a police station. That stands in good stead in case as you drive off a Good Samaritan rings in to say you at leaving the scene having not bothered to approach you. It's a pity we feel the need to cover ourselves so much these days but we do.


matt its my interpretation of the law that you must attend the station in person, rather than ring, do you agree

though it does say you can give your details to a constable, so perhaps you could ring, as long as you ensure you are put through to a real policeman and not be dealing with a civilian ?
The Rookie
The law states report, so as long as the action completed is 'report' you have complied, an online form would seem a good idea for this!

The law states report, so as long as the action completed is 'report' you have complied, an online form would seem a good idea for this!

When I had similar they just gave me a small form to complete and hand in, time would have been saved at both ends if I could have done that online.
jobo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:49) *
The law states report, so as long as the action completed is 'report' you have complied, an online form would seem a good idea for this!

The law states report, so as long as the action completed is 'report' you have complied, an online form would seem a good idea for this!

When I had similar they just gave me a small form to complete and hand in, time would have been saved at both ends if I could have done that online.


the LAW says report AT a police station, not TO a police station. that seems to be location specific to me ?


an online form might well go to an office and that isnt a police station at all
jobo
QUOTE (lollipop11 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2013 - 23:52) *
Thanks StuartaBu. When I spoke to the police on the phone after I received the NIP I was quite upset but he tried to reassure me saying it was a standard form & that lots are issued and not always seen through to prosecution. I came here just looking for advice on what to expect etc and instead I'm now feeling really anxious. All over my bumper touching that of another car.


there is a tendency on here to go to the worse possible scenario, in order to prosicute you, the prosicution need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. that damage was caused by your car. and then that such damage would be apparent to a reasonably diligent inspection by you

if they can do that, it largely comes down if they can be arsed to do more than pass your details on
The Rookie
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:52) *
the LAW says report AT a police station, not TO a police station. that seems to be location specific to me ?

The information will be reported at the station, does that require the reporter to be there?

And S172 reply is provided at a Police station without the supplier being there......
jobo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 14:11) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:52) *
the LAW says report AT a police station, not TO a police station. that seems to be location specific to me ?

The information will be reported at the station, does that require the reporter to be there?

And S172 reply is provided at a Police station without the supplier being there......


well in that case there is nothing wrong with just putting it in the post with next day delivery then ?
The Rookie
Hardly as soon as possible then.....

All a bit off topic though, the key issue was the reporting....
jobo
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 14:11) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:52) *
the LAW says report AT a police station, not TO a police station. that seems to be location specific to me ?

The information will be reported at the station, does that require the reporter to be there?

And S172 reply is provided at a Police station without the supplier being there......


and a quick read of 172 indicates it doesnt include any reference to the status of the location of the reply,
Jimzzr
QUOTE (Pete D @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 10:40) *
"I have mentioned several times, when somebody drove into me, and it was a fairly serious crash, I phoned TVP and they told me that there was no need to inform them."

Yes but you most probably both stopped and exchanged details. Thus no requirement to report the accident. Pete D


No, if you read the OPs post you will see it was an injury accident. Thus there was a requirement to report, and the police were wrong to give him/her the bum's rush (assuming they were made aware of an injury - and they should have asked IMHO).
The Rookie
Where was the injury? Have you read the thread?
sgtdixie
I believe there is case law to say a phone call is not sufficient. Stopping a cop in the street would be sufficient but if that isn't done you must go to a Police Station as Jobo says (nice to have him back BTW).

Irrelevant here. I believe all the offences are made out but the public interest/can't be arsed test may well suggest the insurance companies will be left to sort it out.
Jimzzr
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 15:28) *
Where was the injury? Have you read the thread?


In the OP's opening post

"This seems contradictory to what they had told me in the past when another driver hit me and injured me, left my car almost a write off and when I phoned the police they refused to attend and told me they didn't need to know about it as it was a matter for my insurance company to sort out."

Note PeteD was writing (and hence my reply is) in relation to the OP's earlier accident that TVP weren't interested in.
crashdetective
Given that so many police posts are no longer manned, I would suggest that (if) there is case law to say that a phone call isn't sufficient, it wouldn't get past the can't be arsed test.

OP, you have to ask if the Magistrates would accept your account, or would they just draw a conclusion that dialling 101 shows much more likelyhood of an honest person in these times of mobile phones?

I bet most people on this board have had their car hit in a car park at some time or another. How many offending drivers really leave a note? It's funny because most claim they have when(if) caught and that's the hurdle you would have to overcome. Reporting it to police by phone leaves you in a much stronger position to prove your honesty.

Live and learn.
southpaw82
Jesus people. This is not a free for all discussion for pedants. If you want to do that go to the Flame Pit.
The Rookie
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 15:28) *
Where was the injury? Have you read the thread?


In the OP's opening post

"This seems contradictory to what they had told me in the past when another driver hit me and injured me, left my car almost a write off and when I phoned the police they refused to attend and told me they didn't need to know about it as it was a matter for my insurance company to sort out."

Note PeteD was writing (and hence my reply is) in relation to the OP's earlier accident that TVP weren't interested in.

OK, thought you were talking about the incident in Q and on topic.....
Mattd
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:46) *
QUOTE (Mattd @ Mon, 2 Dec 2013 - 13:28) *
When I have had similar a minor bumps rather than mess around if there has been no one at scene to give details to I haversng in on 101, explained the circumstances giving all relevant detail and explaining I am making my way to a police station. That stands in good stead in case as you drive off a Good Samaritan rings in to say you at leaving the scene having not bothered to approach you. It's a pity we feel the need to cover ourselves so much these days but we do.


matt its my interpretation of the law that you must attend the station in person, rather than ring, do you agree

though it does say you can give your details to a constable, so perhaps you could ring, as long as you ensure you are put through to a real policeman and not be dealing with a civilian ?


I agree (and welcome back!) I think the legislation envisaged and actual report at a station. I suppose another example of technology moving quicker than legislation.
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