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sypher
I recently got 2 PCN for turning right from Caversham Road (london) to Kentish Town road. There’s a No right turn sign there. However there has been some major road works on Kentish Town road for many many month’s, and as a result of this roadworks we were forced to turn right only. The road works as you will be aware weas for a new asphalt layer to the road. Because of the ongoing roadworks that no right turn sign has been covered and the council or the road workers put a Turn right sign to push the flow of traffic onto Kentish town road away from the road works for the drivers who’s coming from Caversham road to notice easily. It was impossible to turn left anyway,unless you wanted to go straight into the roadworks.

When they finished the roadworks, the Turn Right sign has been removed and the No right turn sign has been uncovered again. A few days later I went there without noticing this change and got those tickets for 07/10/13 and 09/10/13. My problem is that I think they should have warned the drivers somehow to be aware of these changes because its a huge change from no right turn, then you HAVE TO turn right, then no right turn again and Kentish town road is just a simple 2 way road. The important factor here is that especially after this many sign changes and roadworks you would not be aware of the return of the no right turn sign. Being a delivery driver and delivering to a client on Caversham Road for many years, and not subsequently having a ticket you can understand my frustration with getting a ticket.

I do admit I made a mistake but I think I shouldn’t get 2 tickets for the same reason after these sneaky sign changes, especially without a proper warning of all these changes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

Transit man
QUOTE (sypher @ Wed, 23 Oct 2013 - 18:56) *
I do admit I made a mistake but I think I shouldn’t get 2 tickets for the same reason after these sneaky sign changes, especially without a proper warning of all these changes.

Frustrating, but as long as the signs were compliant then they have to be observed.
QUOTE (sypher @ Wed, 23 Oct 2013 - 18:56) *
Is there anything I can do about this?

You could check that the TRO for the signs are in place, chances are that they are as the NRT has been in place for a long time, but a slight chance that it was updated for the roadworks & not reinstated, but probably straw clutching.


Others will with more knowledge will I am sure advise.
SchoolRunMum
Like all the other threads, show us all pages of the PCNs and we can advise further.
sypher
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 24 Oct 2013 - 20:59) *
Like all the other threads, show us all pages of the PCNs and we can advise further.


Hi Mate

please see the PCN attached

Thanks
SchoolRunMum
I am a lady so not a mate - but no worries!

Please show all pages.
sypher
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 30 Oct 2013 - 02:41) *
I am a lady so not a mate - but no worries!

Please show all pages.


SORRY ohmy.gif !!

Thats all the pages that we have...What are your thoughts?

Many Thanks

Amar
Hippocrates
Show other side of PCN.
sypher
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Wed, 30 Oct 2013 - 11:28) *
Show other side of PCN.


Here you go, i hope I have this right !

Thanks

Amar
After The Beep
You have missed the discount period for both PCNs, so you may as well take them all the way to PATAS.
Hippocrates
The PCN must state according to the law:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted


(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
*
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.



There are, in effect, two periods in which to make payment and representations: Schedule 1 states beginning with the date of service re reps.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

This PCN in my opinion conflates the two periods by the statement: If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period and no representations are made an increased charge of £195......................

(v) * above has been conflated with the reps. period, indeed.

Even though the PCN correctly states later re representations being made beginning with the date of service, this creates an ambiguity which the law is must be resolved in favour of the disadvantaged party.

So, IMO the PCN is unenforceable. Also, I would pursue the council for the timings of these signage changes and require the Traffic Management Orders with all schedules and amendments in pdf.
sypher
QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Wed, 30 Oct 2013 - 13:21) *
The PCN must state according to the law:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted


(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
*
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.



There are, in effect, two periods in which to make payment and representations: Schedule 1 states beginning with the date of service re reps.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

This PCN in my opinion conflates the two periods by the statement: If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period and no representations are made an increased charge of £195......................

(v) * above has been conflated with the reps. period, indeed.

Even though the PCN correctly states later re representations being made beginning with the date of service, this creates an ambiguity which the law is must be resolved in favour of the disadvantaged party.

So, IMO the PCN is unenforceable. Also, I would pursue the council for the timings of these signage changes and require the Traffic Management Orders with all schedules and amendments in pdf.


WOW.

Amazing detail, so from I understand due to the confusion caused I can get them to waive the PCN based on the information you have provided.

A silly as this sound shall I send them exactly what you posted?

THANK YOU biggrin.gif
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