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mothepro
Hi all,

I received the attached PCN letter by post.

I was stopped at the side of the road, sitting IN my car, when this officer wanted to give me a ticket so I drove off. He never actually gave me a ticket or even attempted to.
I've been online and there are three identical pictures, all showing only the front of the car, not showing the windscreen so it cannot be proven that we were sitting in the car at the time. There are no time or dates mentioned on the pictures.
The Tax Disc Number and Tax Expiry Date are not given on the letter.

What's my best way of challenging this?

Thanks

Mo
Incandescent
The TMA 2004 has specific clauses for so-called "drive aways". Where a CEO has observed a contravention, and started to prepare a PCN but the driver returns and drives off, a PCN can be issued by post. The council are obliged, if challenged, to prove the PCN has been started, but normally this only gets resolved at adjudication with the full PCN amount in play, i.e no discount.

Whether you were in the car or not is irrelevant to your case.
Mr Mustard
Barnet like doing this. If he had time to photograph the front of your car he had time to put the PCN under your wiper blade.

I think I would be asking to see proof of when the original PCN was produced and for a copy of it. Cue; a cancellation.
mothepro
QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Fri, 18 Oct 2013 - 21:15) *
Barnet like doing this. If he had time to photograph the front of your car he had time to put the PCN under your wiper blade.

I think I would be asking to see proof of when the original PCN was produced and for a copy of it. Cue; a cancellation.


I wrote to Barnet asking them for proof. They have issued the attached response. Basically they are saying the CEO observed it on a single yellow line, which is an instant contravention. The CEO who (surprise surprise) is 'deemed a credible witness' has noted that the vehicle drove away. But because he correctly noted all the relevant vehicle details such as make, colour, registration and correct location, the Council are satisfied the contravention did occur.

Firstly, they have not addressed the issue of whether the PCN was written up or not. They seem to be saying that the minute the car was stopped there it was instantly ticket-able regardless of whether the CEO started writing out a PCN or not. According to what they say, if he hadn't started a PCN it wouldn't be relevant, as long as he noted the make and model - which he could do simply with snapping a photo of the car. Is it not a simple matter for him to access the car details by using the numberplate? Say he saw a red car stop on the side for a second and snapped a picture. Could he not use the numberplate to find the car details? Im sure I could get it from any insurance website - just enter in my car numberplate and it will tell me what my car is!

Secondly, I notice that there is no tax disc number or expiry date given on the original PCN by post.

Thirdly, there is no mention made on this letter that I now have 14 days to pay the reduced rate. Does this invalidate the Notice of Rejection?

Thanks, as always.

Mo
After The Beep
The council make no mention of the CEO having started to issue a PCN. They may argue that taking the details of the vehicle constitutes starting the PCN, but they do not say that in their rejection. Their line just seems to be that the CEO saw you in contravention.

You have nothing to lose by going to adjudication.

As stated, you can challenge them, at adjudication, on the basis that they need to prove that a PCN was issued and that the CEO had started issuing it.

But can you please also tells us why you were stopped on the yellow line, and also post up the rear page of the PCN, as there may be further grounds for appeal.

Also, if you have it, please post up a copy of the appeal that you sent in. The exact content of this may show up a procedural impropriety in their response.
Mr Mustard
The PCN says the CEO attempted to serve the PCN so he/she must have produced it and not just been observing.

Challenge on the grounds of not being served, that no-one prevented the affixing of the PCN because it hadn't been produced and ask to see the original PCN produced at the scene that wasn't served.

Look at PATAS cases 2130488319 and 2130479599

http://www.patasregistersofappeals.org.uk/...egAdvanced.aspx
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