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Graeme311
According to The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, "Outer Controlled ZONE" signs are not lawful, unless I am missing something?

This is from the document and an image of one of the signs

Controlled ZONE Signage (Schedule 2)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/schedule/2/made (Scroll down to page 105)


Permitted Variants (Schedule 16, Items 38 and 39)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...chedule/16/made


Example:


Many thanks,

G
Mad Mick V
Looks like you are correct.

The insertion of the word "Outer" is not a permitted variant as far as I can see from the primary legislation and 2 Amendments.

I wouldn't put much weight on this being any use to you because adjudicators have the habit of ruling that defective signage is substantially compliant if it conveys the necessary message.

Might as well post up the PCN and let members give their advice.

Mick
Bogsy
Have you checked with the council or DfT that the sign is not an authorised variant?
Graeme311
QUOTE (MAD MICK V @ Thu, 3 Oct 2013 - 20:37) *
Looks like you are correct.

The insertion of the word "Outer" is not a permitted variant as far as I can see from the primary legislation and 2 Amendments.

I wouldn't put much weight on this being any use to you because adjudicators have the habit of ruling that defective signage is substantially compliant if it conveys the necessary message.

Might as well post up the PCN and let members give their advice.

Mick


That's my thought, worth a go on appeal before any court action I suppose.
It's not my PCN, but I'll see if I can get a copy

QUOTE (Bogsy @ Thu, 3 Oct 2013 - 22:30) *
Have you checked with the council or DfT that the sign is not an authorised variant?


I thought that legislation is what these things go by, not what the councils or some department decide to do outside of the law otherwise they could put up 100MPH speed limits in their town? - I don't know, can they?
Bogsy
Legislation allows a council to apply to use non prescribed traffic signs. The sign is not prescribed therefore it needs to be authorised by the DfT, if it's not then the sign is unlawful.
clark_kent
QUOTE (Graeme311 @ Thu, 3 Oct 2013 - 19:31) *
Permitted Variants (Schedule 16, Items 38 and 39)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...chedule/16/made

G


surely the permitted variant in 39.1 covers it? 'outer' is a name identifying a parking zone is it not?
Graeme311
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 4 Oct 2013 - 00:09) *
QUOTE (Graeme311 @ Thu, 3 Oct 2013 - 19:31) *
Permitted Variants (Schedule 16, Items 38 and 39)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...chedule/16/made

G


surely the permitted variant in 39.1 covers it? 'outer' is a name identifying a parking zone is it not?


I could understand if they put a town, street or other actual place name since that is a valid name of a known, defined area. I don't think "Outer", "ABC" or "Unlucky" etc can be deemed a "name" of something unless it's clearly explained there and then.

Maybe they could win on this point though, any thoughts?
hcandersen
What's unclear, and unlawful, about "Outer"?

As posted above, Schedule 16, s39 seems perfectly clear:

(1) A symbol, logo, number, letter or letters (capitals, lower case or both), or name identifying a parking zone or parking permit identification may be added or varied as appropriate.

If you have a PCN, pl post.
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