Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: NTK Questions
FightBack Forums > Queries > Private Parking Tickets & Clamping
JBarnes
Hi,

I am looking for some guidance on a NTK from a PPC that I received and hope someone could help me with wording a reply to them. First of all a few details:

Ticket was issued 28/06/2013
Contravention: Parked in an area without displaying a valid ticket or permit. (The ticket is on the dashboard face down, but has a serial number clearly visible)
Date of NTK 27/08/2013

The first paragraph states:

A Parking Charge Notice was issued and attached to the above mentioned vehicle; however, we have not received
any payment within the specified time outlined on the Parking Charge Notice. As such, it is now too late to pay the
amount stipulated on the Parking Charge Notice and late payment charges, levied to cover the costs of recovery,
have been incurred. These are included in the total amount due
.

Surely if the keeper is ignorant of the fact the ticket has been issued, then he is being penalised for someone elses actions who he has no control over.


lf you were not the driver of the vehicle on the date of issue of this Parking Charge Notice, please supply us with
the name and address of the driver. lf you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the
vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale. Hire companies; please provide the details of the lease holder to the
above address within 14 days from the date of this letter.


This is the paragraph that drew my attention, I have read through the Protection of Freedoms Act and as far as I understand the RK has to be allowed 28 days before any further action is taken, yet they are asking for a reply within 14 days.

The total amount due as stated above is to be paid within 14 days from the date of this letter. Please arrange for
payment to be sent to Debt Recovery Department XXXXX Parking (UK) Ltd, PO Box XXXX, XXXXXXXX, XXX,XXX.
Cheques should be made payable to XXXXX Parking (UK) Ltd. The outstanding amount can also be paid via
credit/debit card by calling 0845 XXX XXXX and speaking to one of our operators. Should you wish to dispute the
issuing of this Notice to Owner, you can do so in writing to the address listed above within 14 days from the date
of this letter.


So, as above they now say that payment has to paid within 14 days, and then allow the RK just 14 days to question this claim. I am presuming that this is totally out of order, am I right or wrong ?
This is not the only issue I have because even before the 28 days were up, in fact 14 days later they have passed my personal information to Roxburghe, who have added another £48 to the initial sum of £90.

Could anyone please confirm that this NTK is non compliant with POFA and the BPA Code of Practice and suggest how to put this over to the PPC involved. A little help with the wording I should use would be really appreciated, that is if I am correct in my understanding of the regs.

Thanks

JB.

nigelbb
That NTK is out of time. If a ticket is left on the car then the NTK must be delivered no earlier than 28 days after the event nor later than 56 days after the event with the day after the event counting as Day 1. If the parking event was 28th June then 27th August is Day 60. When was the NTK actually delivered?

When you contact the PPC to tell them to go swivel do not tell them who the driver was just state that they have failed to meet the strict timescales laid down in POFA necessary to chase the keeper for unpaid parking charges and so they must contact the driver who you decline to identify. Read POFA & the DfT Guidelines in the link in my sig
blueskier
as per nigel, what date did you receive the NTK? have you kept the envelope? the 56 days nigel mentions is for the NTK to actually be received by yourself.
Write the letter but they almost certainly wont roll over, then you demand a POPLA code if they do not accept your submission.
JBarnes
Thanks for the replies, I have the envelope but there is no date on it as is usual with todays post. Unfortunately I can't remember the date it was delivered. Does the fact they also state payment must be made within 14 days also make this non compliant and the fact they have got a third party involved, and the fact they clearly say I only have 14 days to dispute the NTK.
If this ever went any further would this be seen as a reason to get any legal action wiped out ?
Should I also be contacting the BPA and reporting this flouting of POFA guidelines and the BPA Code of Practice to which this company have signed up to and agreed to adhere to.

And finally, any chance of some assistance on how to break the news to them.

Thanks.

JB.
JBarnes
Will this do as a reply to the lovely PPC, 24/09/2013

Dear Sir/Madam

I am the registered keeper of the motor vehicle which bears the registration number XXXXXXX.
I am writing with regards to your Notice to Keeper dated 27th September 2013.

The fact that your document is titled “Notice to Owner/Keeper/Hirer and the subsequent letter from your agents, namely Roxburghe, it is made quite clear that your claim is being sought in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012

The BPA, of which you and your agents are both members of, have very clear guidelines in their AOS Code of Practice Version 3, June 2013.
I refer you to 20.2 :

Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 creates the new legal basis to
claim unpaid parking charges from vehicle keepers and
hirers. As long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 are
met

POFA Schedule 4(8)(5) which states:

The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

It is clear from the dates included in your Notice to Keeper that it was sent outside of the relevant period.

BPA AOS Code of Practice:

20.8 Notice to Keepers

20.11

The Notice to Keeper serves three purposes:
• it invites the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge
• if the keeper was not the driver it invites the keeper
to tell you who the driver was, and
it starts the 28-day time period after which the keeper
may become liable to pay the unpaid parking charge


POFA 9(2)(f)

warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given

You clearly state that payment has to be made within 14 days from the date of the Notice to Keeper.
Your agents, Roxburghe in a letter dated 12th September 2013 are claiming that under the Protections of Freedom Act 2012 that as the registered keeper I am now liable for making a payment to them.

Your company and your agents, Roxburghe would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper under PoFA 2012. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that there can be no keeper liability. It is quite clear that you both are guilty of making false claims for payment having failed to adhere to the strict guidelines laid out under the POFA 2012.

As such I will be sending copies of this to the relevant bodies highlighting your blatant flouting of regulations set out in POFA 2012.
JBarnes
Quick update.
Have notified Acpoa and Roxburghe that the Notice to Keeper is non-compliant and therefore do one, sent formal complaint to DVLA re misuse of personal data.
Now have a letter from some solicitor firm, GPB, same address as Roxburghe smile.gif
I'm presuming that our letters have crossed going off the date from GPB, but I really would have thought that a solicitor would have checked the details before sending demanding letters out.
So now I have a Notice to Keeper asking for payment to Acpoa, I have a letter from Roxburghe asking for payment to them as Acpoas agent, and I have a solicitor telling me that they are acting on behalf of Acpoa but I need to contact Roxburghe, all very confusing smile.gif

And I can't believe that a solicitor would include the phrase 'PCN' in any letter.

Quote from letter :

In order to recover the sum due, Apcoa Parking UK Ltd may instruct us to take legal action in the county court and to
prevent such action, we would invite you to contact Roxburghe (UK) Limited on 01932 332M8 to confirm your
proposals in respect of this PCN
.


Does anyone really know what is going on ? smile.gif

JB
SchoolRunMum
The GPB letters at this stage are sent by Roxburghe (note the same address!).

However don't get complacent knowing that, because GPB are actually a solicitor firm and have issued small claims recently over fake PCNs. So you have appealed to APCOA but did you ask for a POPLA code in that letter (not that you have to, as such, but that's what you really, really, want if you don't get it cancelled by the BPA/DVLA stepping in).
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.