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Gixxer
I have received a summons last week for Without due care and attention. I was stopped in May and received no paperwork at the time. I remember being told that I would be contacted regarding what would happen next. I have the option to plead by post or at court. I have already requested a copy of the officers notebook as i cannot remember being notified of an intention to prosecute (there was a lot of reluctance in agreeing to provide this to me). The summons is the first thing I have received since the alleged offence.
RTA 1998 states
Requirement of warning etc. of prosecutions for certain offences.
(1)Subject to section 2 of this Act, [F1a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless]—
(a)he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question of prosecuting him for some one or other of the offences to which this section applies would be taken into consideration or
(b)within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or
©within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—
(i)in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the M1Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,
(ii)in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.
If it is not recorded in the officers notebook that I was warned of an intention to prosecute would this be out of time?
I have seen that regarding a NOIP by post I would need to prove it was not sent in time, but surely the officer would need to prove that he had issued such a warning (e.g. by a notebook entry to record it), as it would be impossible for me to prove he had not said it without having a video record.
Advice appreciated.
AntonyMMM
If you submit a plea of Not Guilty you will receive copies of whatever evidence the prosecution intend to rely on to prove their case. Included in that will no doubt be a statement from the officer , which will almost certainly contain a phrase saying you were informed you may be prosecuted.

Whether that is recorded as a written record in a notebook, or as a tick in box on a traffic offence form, who knows.

He can "prove" he said it by giving evidence to that effect in court - you can give evidence to the contrary and the court can choose who to believe.

We really need to know more about what has actually happened/been alleged - i.e. was this after an accident, or just a pull for bad driving.
Jlc
If you were stopped at the time and an offence was alleged and that further action is possible then this is almost certainly sufficient. It is presumed that this happened unless you can rebut that presumption. It won't be a strong defence - it might be better to concentrate on the offence itself and how to minimise the impact there.

As noted, more details...?
Gixxer
Hi, thanks for responses
There was no accident, I was pulled over by a marked bike due to my riding.
I did not receive a NOIP by post, and no copy was included in the summons. I have been led to believe that for a NOIP to have been issued verbally I should have been told something along the lines of "you are being reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offence of driving without due care and attention". I should also have been required to confirm that I understood that this was to be reported for consideration.
I have no recollection of this happening(being notified). If the officer has not recorded in his notebook at the time that he had informed me that I was being reported for consideration of being prosecuted it would surely be unreasonable for him to know beyond all reasonable doubt that he had done so at the time, especially as this would be the key evidence and would need to be in his statement.
To clarify
1) I have yet to receive the notebook so it may be in there anyway
2) As far as I am aware you do not have to enter a plea before being shown any evidence (disclosure)
3) I used to be involved in criminal investigations and if you write anything in a statement that isn't in your notebook it can get the whole statement thrown out (you can add extra detail to what is already noted)
If this is in there I would likely have no option but to go down the Guilty with mitigation route, but wanted to confirm my suspicions if it wasn't as I wont have much time when if they do send the copy.
The Rookie
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 22:21) *
I have been led to believe that for a NOIP to have been issued verbally I should have been told something along the lines of "you are being reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offence of driving without due care and attention". I should also have been required to confirm that I understood that this was to be reported for consideration.

Not quite true,
He needs to inform you of the intent, those words are not required, anything in plain English will do.

You do not need to reply for the NIP to have been given.
Gixxer
My main question still applies. Would he have to have recorded in his notebook that he informed me of an intent to report (in whatever form) or is it acceptable that in receiving a summons that he would of course done so.
AFCNEAL
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 11:29) *
My main question still applies. Would he have to have recorded in his notebook that he informed me of an intent to report (in whatever form) or is it acceptable that in receiving a summons that he would of course done so.


No he would not - a verbal testimony would suffice and he will say he did and the court will believe him (here). You're clutching at straws if this is the only defence you have.............
The Rookie
Long shot, but if you get him in the stand and question him in detail about the stop and establish (without asking) no NIP was given, you'd ahve a chance, unfourtunately you would have to disclose your defence (broadly) in adavnce and as such it would take a level of incompittance for the proescution not to tip him off!
southpaw82
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 22:21) *
3) I used to be involved in criminal investigations and if you write anything in a statement that isn't in your notebook it can get the whole statement thrown out (you can add extra detail to what is already noted)


It can but it doesn't necessarily mean it will. Personally, I think you're clutching at straws. What is the substance of the allegation?
Gixxer
My issue is that the first I was aware of a possible prosecution is the summons. If I was told at the time of being stopped then I did not hear it properly. If this is recorded (hence the notebook question) then I have nowhere to go, and will need advice on a plea and will seek legal advice. The greatest annoyance is that since then I have started IAM with the Skills for Life package so will be great for mitigation (changed behaviour etc) but likely will end up with points and a fine. Also have to hope I don't get an anti bike magistrate.
If there is nothing in the notebook I was going to contact the CPS to see if the summons was valid to see if they will drop charges.
southpaw82
You could try it but they may decide to simply rely on the presumption in law that the warning was given. You'd have to give evidence that it was not, which going from the brief description in your OP ("he told me I'd be contacted about what would happen") might prove problematic for you. The law you're seeking to apply is not black and white and there's no rule that says if it wasn't written in the notebook it didn't happen. That is a simplistic view often foisted on investigators by trainers that doesn't reflect legal reality.
The Rookie
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 17:52) *
If there is nothing in the notebook I was going to contact the CPS to see if the summons was valid to see if they will drop charges.

That is an incredably simplistic view, the summons would be 'valid' even if no warning were given at all its just you may have a defence.
Gixxer
I have today received in the post a copy of his witness statement but no notebook entry. Interestingly the statement is dated and signed the day of the alleged offense and contains a word for word in caps line "I AM REPORTING YOU FOR CONSIDERATION IN THE QUESTION OF PROSECUTING YOU FOR THE OFFENCE OF CARELESS RIDING." After caution he gave no reply.
He then mentions the word danger which I am not happy about.
It appears they have me over a barrel now as any question I ask in relation to when the statement was prepared or copies of the electronic file will be used as me questioning the integrity of the officer even though it is unlikely a witness statement was prepared and signed on the same day as the alleged offence.

On a separate question can they suspend points? i.e. place it on file and only endorse if future offences occur?
peterguk
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 21:31) *
can they suspend points? i.e. place it on file and only endorse if future offences occur?


No.
AntonyMMM
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 21:31) *
I have today received in the post a copy of his witness statement but no notebook entry. Interestingly the statement is dated and signed the day of the alleged offense and contains a word for word in caps line "I AM REPORTING YOU FOR CONSIDERATION IN THE QUESTION OF PROSECUTING YOU FOR THE OFFENCE OF CARELESS RIDING." After caution he gave no reply.
He then mentions the word danger which I am not happy about.
It appears they have me over a barrel now as any question I ask in relation to when the statement was prepared or copies of the electronic file will be used as me questioning the integrity of the officer even though it is unlikely a witness statement was prepared and signed on the same day as the alleged offence.


Statements for traffic offences are often done from stored templates, and can be done in a few minutes by filling the relevant blanks, so it is quite possible the statement was done that day. But even if it wasn't (and you have no evidence to say that) you are still missing the point - the evidence will the officers verbal testimony, if you disagree with it then you (or your solicitor) can challenge it and question him about it. Don't worry about questioning the integrity of the officer - he will be quite used to it, it happens in every case where the defence want to divert attention from the actual offence being discussed.

QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 21:31) *
On a separate question can they suspend points? i.e. place it on file and only endorse if future offences occur?

No


The fact you have not even mentioned what the careless riding was all about, and haven't once said you didn't do whatever they allege, suggests you are desperately looking for a technical get-out. If that is the case, you may be better pleading guilty at the first opportunity and going with your mitigation
Jlc
QUOTE (Gixxer @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 21:31) *
He then mentions the word danger which I am not happy about.

This should set alarm bells ringing because 'driving bordering on dangerous' is in the 7 to 9 points category.
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