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HORT1
Couldn't believe it when I called them an hour ago.
I received a letter from a court in another county saying I had failed to pay them £90, so pay up or else.
I called them and they said it was for a vehicle I owned in February 2008 for failing to have an MOT.
Didn't I? I don't know, it was nearly 6 years ago!

I told them I have never had sight of a Fixed Penalty Notice, a summons, a judgement or a demand - until now.
They said it doesn't matter, you still have to pay.

Seriously?!
AFCNEAL
Tread carefully - sounds like a scam? Have you checked the number matches the listed one for the Court?
PB-101
QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 10:25) *
Tread carefully - sounds like a scam? Have you checked the number matches the listed one for the Court?


he didn't the OP phoned the court or at least a number on the letter purporting to be the court
Aretnap
So did you get stopped for no MOT six years ago and given a fixed penalty or not? Yes, no or not sure? If you're not sure yourself, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody else that you didn't.

If you are given a fixed penalty and fail to either pay it or request a court hearing within the time allowed, it will have been increased by 50% (hence the £90), registered as a fine, and can then be enforced by the usual means used to enforce fines (bailiffs, deductions from wages etc, up to and including imprisonment). There's no need for a hearing, summons etc. AFAIK there is no time limit on enforcing them.

If you're not sure whether this is your fixed penalty or not then you're probably best to pay up and move on. Even if you're sure you didn't receive a fixed penalty (could someone else have been stopped and given your details?), once it's been registered as a fine there's no further formal route for an appeal so your options for getting it cancelled are likely to be rather limited.
Gan
If the OP genuinely doesn't know about this, what stops him making a statutory declaration ?
Aretnap
QUOTE (Gan @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 10:49) *
If the OP genuinely doesn't know about this, what stops him making a statutory declaration ?

Mostly the fact that there's been no summons, trial or proceedings to halt or void I believe - law. The process doesn't apply to fixed penalties, and AFAIK there's no equivalent proces to overturn a fixed penalty.
Gan
QUOTE (Aretnap @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 10:55) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 10:49) *
If the OP genuinely doesn't know about this, what stops him making a statutory declaration ?

Mostly the fact that there's been no summons, trial or proceedings to halt or void I believe - law. The process doesn't apply to fixed penalties, and AFAIK there's no equivalent proces to overturn a fixed penalty.

That's what I suspected

Can't see how he could have a fixed penalty for an MOT offence that he doesn't know about unless somebody else gave his details
HORT1
Yeah, the phone number checks against the courts. 0845 no less, christ, they even sting you when phoning them.
I'm writing to them asking them to provide the original FPN.
Also phoning a solicitor to see if it's still enforceable.
johnjo42
Hold on. A fixed penalty has to be accepted so it is more likely that it was a summons. A statutory declarrtion is the way forward. The effect of making it is to void the conviction, but the police can start again. Whether they would after so long is doubtful
JJ
HORT1
What's this Statutory Declaration you speak of?
paulajayne
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Statutory+Declaration+
HORT1
QUOTE (paulajayne @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 15:03) *


Already googled
A legally sworn document declaring that something is true.
I don't see how that helps.
I need the context of what you mean by making a Statutory Declaration. What am I declaring?
Jlc
QUOTE (HORT1 @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 18:17) *
What am I declaring?

That you were unaware of any court hearing and conviction. (If there was one!)
HORT1
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 19:38) *
QUOTE (HORT1 @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 18:17) *
What am I declaring?

That you were unaware of any court hearing and conviction. (If there was one!)


Oh no. She said it was FPN so no summons or hearing.
Jlc
Indeed, then it must be paid before it gets worse.
roythebus
did you own the car the FPN was issued against at that time?
HORT1
QUOTE (roythebus @ Wed, 18 Sep 2013 - 20:55) *
did you own the car the FPN was issued against at that time?


Not sure. I thought not, but she said it was booked outside my house on 14th Feb 2008.
The car is long gone so I can't really check MOT's or the log book.
johnjo42
In that case, best is to pay the £90 and move on
JJ
HORT1
QUOTE (johnjo42 @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 12:57) *
In that case, best is to pay the £90 and move on
JJ


I plan to, only if they can provide the FPN, otherwise I'll fight it.
southpaw82
QUOTE (HORT1 @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 19:32) *
QUOTE (johnjo42 @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 12:57) *
In that case, best is to pay the £90 and move on
JJ


I plan to, only if they can provide the FPN, otherwise I'll fight it.


Fight what? And how?
Aretnap
Tread carefully. We had a thread a while ago from someone who refused to pay an FPN and ended up spending a few days in prison. Here it is - how not to fight it.
Pancras
QUOTE (HORT1 @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 19:32) *
I plan to, only if they can provide the FPN, otherwise I'll fight it.

I'm not sure that you are not leading yourself down the wrong road.

You are not fighting the fixed penalty. You get 28 days to pay it at £60 or request a court hearing. If you do neither the penalty increases to £90 and if a further 28 days elapse and it is still not paid, it is registered with the court as an unpaid fine.

That appears to be the position you are in. At the point the fine is registered as an unpaid fine, the paperwork is passed to the court. Courts have unpaid fines going back years, and there will be a copy of the original paperwork.

Ultimately however, if the fine isn't paid a distress warrant will be issued and you will be summonsed to court for non-payment of fines.

That's not a way that you want this matter to go, as things generally get worse. It's now not going to help you to try and prove your car was MOT'd. Your time for contesting that expired 28 days after the alleged offence.

AFAIK (and someone might correct me if I am wrong) NPF matters are dealt with at civil rules.
HORT1
QUOTE (Pancras @ Tue, 24 Sep 2013 - 00:26) *
QUOTE (HORT1 @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 19:32) *
I plan to, only if they can provide the FPN, otherwise I'll fight it.

I'm not sure that you are not leading yourself down the wrong road.

You are not fighting the fixed penalty. You get 28 days to pay it at £60 or request a court hearing. If you do neither the penalty increases to £90 and if a further 28 days elapse and it is still not paid, it is registered with the court as an unpaid fine.

That appears to be the position you are in. At the point the fine is registered as an unpaid fine, the paperwork is passed to the court. Courts have unpaid fines going back years, and there will be a copy of the original paperwork.

Ultimately however, if the fine isn't paid a distress warrant will be issued and you will be summonsed to court for non-payment of fines.

That's not a way that you want this matter to go, as things generally get worse. It's now not going to help you to try and prove your car was MOT'd. Your time for contesting that expired 28 days after the alleged offence.

AFAIK (and someone might correct me if I am wrong) NPF matters are dealt with at civil rules.


My problem is I haven't been given the opportunity to answer the charge - that's every persons right across the land.
I've been thinking about it and the only time that Land Rover would have had no MOT is when it failed and I was welding the back end of the chassis before taking it back.
I'm not sure of the exact law, but I've a feeling that that is acceptable - either way, I can't prove it as I have no sight of the MOT dates.

Secondly, they should have to produce the FPN to back up their claim to £90 of my money. Clerical errors do happen and computers are not infallible.

If they can't produce the FPN I'll apply for the fine to be suspended while I approach the court to throw out the fine.
localdriver
The regulations are 'The Motor Vehicle (Tests) Regulations 1981'.

Section 6, (2), iii, (A), gives an exemption for a vehicle being taken by prior arrangement to and from a place where work is to be done, but only to and from, not while the work is being done.
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