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Holiday_Inn
Hi Guys,

Had good success here in the past, I need some advice on how to approach a 42.00 GBP admin fee from Thrifty Car Hire for processing my Parking Eye PCN.

The wording on the T & Cs is as follows:

I hereby acknowledge that I shall be liable as owner of any vehicle hired to me under this Agreement in respect of all Parking and Congestion Charges and any infringement of any Road Traffic Act, Congestion Charge or Parking regulation arising during the currency of this Agreement as detailed in condition 7d overleaf. I hereby acknowledge my liability for all fines or charges arising from such infringements, plus an Administration Fee of 35.00 + VAT for each such fine or charge.


Condition 7d:

All charges and legal costs for any congestion charge, road-traffic offence or parking offence, or any other offence involving the rental vehicle, including costs from the vehicle being clamped, seized or towed away. You are responsible for paying the appropriate authority or company for any charges and costs if and when they ask for these payments. You will also be responsible for paying our reasonable administration charges for dealing with these matters.



After the Rental Thrifty sent me an "Invoice' for 42.00 - I have never received anything from Parking Eye although a copy of the Notice was attached.

Do I have a claim against their T & Cs for this charge? I have found another threard about Thrifty that says that they treat Private Company PCNs differently (dated 2012) so this is quite disturbing that they now chose to do this - not a bad cash cow though.

Thanks in advance!
SchoolRunMum
Is there anything in the t&cs that they might refund the charge if the hirer then disputes the 'charge' and wins on appeal? Point being you must appeal it and WILL WIN at POPLA.
Holiday_Inn
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 17 Sep 2013 - 22:22) *
Is there anything in the t&cs that they might refund the charge if the hirer then disputes the 'charge' and wins on appeal? Point being you must appeal it and WILL WIN at POPLA.



No mention of it - I would imagine their defence being they still have to do the 'Admin'.
SchoolRunMum
Well the wording of their t&cs is better than a lot of those we see but I would still argue it by putting the payment into dispute with your card provider as 'unauthorised because it's not a charge relating to any 'offence' and so isn't covered by the t&cs any more than a library fine would be!

And meanwhile appeal the stupid ticket as per usual:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...37&posted=1

and complain assertively about it to the landowner/retail park owner/managing agent and consider suing THEM for the £42 loss! Not joking.
emanresu
Why not send a email to Jay Parmar who is Legal and Policy Director of BVRLA. Email is jay@bvrla.co.uk

Like the BPA they have a code of practice which Thrifty have to sign up to. Ask him why their members are NOT following the Protection of Freedoms by passing back the name of the hirer to the PPC and saving the Admin fee.

You feel this issue is one that should go to Trading Standards as there appears to be a double failure of following both the CoP and the Act.

.... and he has been asked before a number of times.

Gan
Hire companies remain liable for the ticket unless they provide not only the name of the hirer but a copy of the contract that confirms that he discharged their liability

This does slightly more work but, even so, in my view it's still an excessive additional charge that should be looked at under the unfair contract regulations - it's usually more than the cost of the daily rate to hire the car

It should at the very least be negotiable, for example :

A business that doesn't want the inconvenience may be happy to pay £35 for the hire company to pay all invoices and pass on the charges
A consumer would prefer to pay a tenner and fight them himself

The last time I checked, BVRLA were proudly stating that they had pushed for POFA. I can see why
At the same time, I found nothing about standard terms and conditions that members should now include in contracts to address clearly this issue
Thrifty refer only to an "offence"

Thrifty refer to their reasonable charge but it still looks like a cash cow to me

If it's already been charged to your card, it's worth reporting as an unauthorised deduction
If it's not been paid, point out that you're contesting it :

You believe the charge is a breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations as well as outside their terms and conditions
You would therefore ask them to be patient until OFT have had the opportunity to consider it

Holiday_Inn
Wow, thanks for this guys. I am going to dispute the charge with the Bank, not bother with Thrifty. They have taken the charge from my Account. As I said they did not pay the Ticket - but the ticket never arrived from Parking Eye anyhow, yet.

The Bank want copies of all correspondence - I will simple sent them what was sent to me by Thrifty.

So, exactly how should I word this? Say it's an unauthorised charge, an unfair charge or something else?

Want to get it right so that they cant simply come back to me & say that the paperwork proves it's legit.


Cheers!!
SchoolRunMum
Unauthorised because it's not an 'offence' which is all the T&cs cover - as already explained above.

And please don't sit back and wonder about the PE ticket, I thought Thrifty had sent it to you? If not then get it and challenge it urgently or you could end up with a small claims from PE further down the line. You have to appeal and then win at POPLA to get rid of the actual parking charge. Read threads please, if you don't know about POPLA appeals.
SevenTowers
Read this excellent thread

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531
Gan
It is an excellent thread but there are some important differences

Sixt T&C clearly stated that they applied to offences and authorities.
They also paid the parking company and passed on the charge

Thrifty T&C use the term infringement which is more woolly
We've seen threads where credit card companies and BVRLA have argued that words like this can include overstays and breaches of private car park terms

Thrifty have also made an "Administration Charge" as shown on the contract that was signed. They haven't paid Parking Eye
This is a subject that OFT really should investigate

With increasing use of ANPR, this problem will grow
I've long suspected that obvious hire cars are actively targeted because so many companies pay them automatically and there's no need to contact DVLA

It's why I always remove their stickers
Alamo charge to replace them
SevenTowers
You're right Gan, the terms are very different between Sixt contract and the Thrifty one, but don't agree that the Thrifty contract is wooly, it is a charter for PPCs to rip-off any Thrifty customer.

"I shall be liable as owner of any vehicle hired to me under this Agreement in respect of all Parking and Congestion Charges and any infringement of any Road Traffic Act, Congestion Charge or Parking regulation arising during the currency of this Agreement as detailed in condition 7d overleaf. I hereby acknowledge my liability for all fines or charges arising from such infringements, plus an Administration Fee of 35.00 + VAT for each such fine or charge."
It specifically mentions infringement of parking regulation - that could easily cover a PPC "regulation"

7d
"All charges and legal costs for any congestion charge, road-traffic offence or parking offence, or any other offence involving the rental vehicle, including costs from the vehicle being clamped, seized or towed away. You are responsible for paying the appropriate authority or company for any charges and costs if and when they ask for these payments. "

specifically refers to charges for a parking "offence" and refers to paying a company.

And worst of all, makes the hirer responsible for paying any charge (and costs) demanded by any PPC - No appeal, no disputing the contract, whatever the PPC asks for the hirer is obliged to pay. Is it any wonder PPC target hire cars? It must be like taking money from a baby.

I am absolutely disgusted at these terms and will make a point of not giving Thrifty my business.
Gan
I don't disagree

My concern is that You are responsible for paying the appropriate authority or company for any charges and costs if and when they ask for these payments.
can be taken as separate fom the issue of offences

Only requires them to argue that the sentence should begin with 7e

It's an absurd statement though - that a request for a payment automatically creates a liability for the hirer to pay it

I would report it to OFT anyway and make waves about it on Facebook and Twitter

Can't see a practical way of getting the money back
The amount is too small to make court action worthwhile and I can't see the bank going for a chargeback unless they make a goodwill payment to avoid the Financial Ombudsman

Thrifty Car Rental is a franchise so you would have to pursue the actual branch

Musing on the merits of turning up and booking cars then refusing to sign after reading the unacceptable small print



instrumentsofjoy
QUOTE (Gan @ Thu, 19 Sep 2013 - 22:26) *
Musing on the merits of turning up and booking cars then refusing to sign after reading the unacceptable small print


Disgraceful suggestion.

Do they deliver?
tongue.gif
Gan
Before POFA, I used to write "Ref : T&C 3(g) This does not apply to PPC" on the form whenever I hired cars from Enterprise




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