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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Saif Rehman
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2013
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 12 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A74(M)M74 northbound Abington near to Junction 13
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I normally drive everywhere with the family but on this occasion due to a recent medical incident/complaint, i was unable to drive the whole journey. Therefore, my wife also drove the car but we are unable to establish who was driving.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 18:27:17 +0000
Jlc
You either work out who was driving from the given location and time or nominate the most likely driver.

Failure to do so will see a citation for failing to furnish driver details - 6 points, large fine. If you can show with reasonable diligence that you couldn't identify the driver then you have a defence - this is difficult and 'can't remember' is likely to fail.

You can, of course, ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver - they may oblige but are under no obligations to provide any 'evidence'.

The other option, being Scotland, is to go unsigned but is not for the feint-hearted.
Saif Rehman
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:33) *
You either work out who was driving from the given location and time or nominate the most likely driver.

Failure to do so will see a citation for failing to furnish driver details - 6 points, large fine. If you can show with reasonable diligence that you couldn't identify the driver then you have a defence - this is difficult and 'can't remember' is likely to fail.

You can, of course, ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver - they may oblige but are under no obligations to provide any 'evidence'.

The other option, being Scotland, is to go unsigned but is not for the feint-hearted.



Thanks for a quick response.

I felt hard done by as the speed indicated us doing 80mph in a 70mph zone.
I understand that what you are saying, however, on the reverse of the NIP there is no place to explain that i do not know who the driver was.

Thanks again
Jlc
QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:41) *
I felt hard done by as the speed indicated us doing 80mph in a 70mph zone.

80 is more than 70, no? (The normal starting point for enforcement is 79mph)

QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:41) *
I understand that what you are saying, however, on the reverse of the NIP there is no place to explain that i do not know who the driver was.

If you don't nominate the driver then it goes to court - there you can explain. But the speeding charge is irrelevant - just the s172 offence of failing to nominate the driver.
peterguk
QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:27) *
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second


Are you sure it was posted 2nd class and not discounted 1st class? Do you still have the envelope?

If you're to avoid the high risk of 6 points and hefty fine, i'd be getting your heads together with a map and working out who was driving at the time. It'll be a hard task trying to convince magistrates that 2 grown adults can't remember who was driving on a journey of less than 2 weeks ago.
Saif Rehman
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:50) *
QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:41) *
I felt hard done by as the speed indicated us doing 80mph in a 70mph zone.

80 is more than 70, no? (The normal starting point for enforcement is 79mph)

QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:41) *
I understand that what you are saying, however, on the reverse of the NIP there is no place to explain that i do not know who the driver was.

If you don't nominate the driver then it goes to court - there you can explain. But the speeding charge is irrelevant - just the s172 offence of failing to nominate the driver.


So what you suggest is that we decide amongst ourselves and nominate.

QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:52) *
QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:27) *
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second


Are you sure it was posted 2nd class and not discounted 1st class? Do you still have the envelope?


Yes still have the envelope - Frank-mark 47p, don't know if that's 'discounted first class' or not.

Thanks again
southpaw82
You need to name a driver. If you don't, you'll be in court defending a s.172 charge and "sorry, can't remember" is unlikely to cut it.
peterguk
QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:56) *
So what you suggest is that we decide amongst ourselves and nominate.


See my post above.

QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:27) *
Yes still have the envelope - Frank-mark 47p, don't know if that's 'discounted first class' or not.


Hmm, well 2nd class post is 50p. Can anyone confirm discounted 1st cost?
Jlc
47p is discounted first.

QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 19:56) *
So what you suggest is that we decide amongst ourselves and nominate.

The pair of you retrace your steps etc. and work out who was driving. If you truly cannot remember then there is a defence to the s172 charge that if with reasonable diligence you couldn't name the driver. It's a high bar to clear and the sentence is far worse than the underlying offence.

But as already noted a simple 'can't remember' will see you convicted. Ask for the photo's....... Depending on the camera they might have a nice frontal.
The Rookie
So how far was the journey, who drove when you set out, how far into the journey is the allaged offence? You'll have a good idea how long you drove for so will have an idea if you started how far you drove before you swapped.....
Saif Rehman
Hi Guys,

Just an update of the outcome:

Wife remembered that she was driving so she was duly nominated.

3 Penalty points and a £60 fine, no offer of a 'Speed Awareness Course' which she would have taken, i assume because we live in England and the offence occured in Scotland.

Still feeling p*&ed off that the fact she was convicted of driving at 80mph on a clear motorway with little traffic and with good visibilty/conditions.

Well anyway, lesson learned.

Thanks for all your help/advice and keep up the good work.
mrh3369
Speed awareness courses are not available in Scotland so you were never going to be offered one. She shouldn't feel too hard done by as she was exceeding the speed limit by 10mph so it's a fair cop.
Gan
As good a result as you were ever going to get

A week later and the fine would have been £100
The Rookie
As noted, no course would be offered ever for an offence commited in Scotland, no matter where you lived

QUOTE (Saif Rehman @ Sat, 18 Jan 2014 - 21:52) *
Still feeling p*&ed off that the fact she was convicted of driving at 80mph on a clear motorway with little traffic and with good visibilty/conditions.

Get real, would it be OK if I punched you in the face as long as I didn't punch you too hard? The law was broken.
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