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stupidspeeder
Hello,

I am actually shaking whilst writing this as I am so scared about whats going to happen. Yesterday I received my third..yes third SP30 in 8 weeks. All on the same camera. I already have 3 points from a sp30 back in 2011 and so all these new ones will bring my total to 12 points. I know I have been stupid. The speeds were, 37mph in a 30 on two occasions and 40 mph in 30 on the other occasion, which i understand are quite minor. I am the named driver on our car which is in my husbands name.

I am so frightened about what may happen. I am suffering a slight relapse in depression at the moment and am currently signed off from work with stress and anxiety. This has made my anxiety go into overdrive and I had a panic attack last night. sad.gif I'm not a bad person, just a bit stupid.

I understand that I will get a court summons when i send in the latest NIP. What at court can I expect at those speeds. I have two children under 5 and so need my car to transport them to nursery and school. I work part time and so when off work am their primary carer and so a car is essential. My husband sometimes has to go away with work at the last minute and so I need my car to look after my children and also get to the train station to commute to work. I'm also a police officer and am scared about the implications on my job, although don't' drive as part of my role at work. I wasn't' on duty whilst these happened and as It was only slightly over the limit I don't' think sacking is an option, but what if they are tough with me. Without my salary we wouldn't' be able to pay childcare or the mortgage, bills, food, etc on just my husbands wage so essentially we could loose the house. Do all the above reasons come within the exceptional hardship plea? Why should my children or husband suffer because of my errors? I don't have family close by so asking for help isn't an option. I accept that I am liable to a ban but with those speeds what length of ban am i looking at? I think we could probably cope for a few weeks or a month even, would a reduced length of ban be an option? I would also do a speed awareness course as well if needs be.

I am making myself sick with worry....

Thanks in advance for any replies.

SS
The Rookie
You will be liable to a totting ban of 6 months unless you can demonstarte it will cause exceptional hardship (preferably to others), if for example your Children can't go to Nursery the court may ask why you can't keep them at home, can you catch a bus or cycle, all of which you'll be expected to have considered and can show why they are not reasonable.

The nature of the offences themeselves are not relevant although human nature would suggest the magistartes may allow it to sway them (well the ones they know about).

You can't have an SP30 yet as you've not been convicted ar accepted an FPN, are you likley to be offered an awareness course.

Getting done 3 times in 8 weeks suggests you need to take a hard look at your driving, for your own sake, as it suggests (nothing more) a degree of carelessness that could have far more serious consequences than losing your licence.

BertB
One of those instances will be eligible for a speed awareness course, if you have not done one previously in the last 3 years.

This will cost c. £90-£110 but will save you the 3 points, leaving you on only 9. You need to return the first request for driver information ASAP if you haven't already done so.

How long ago were the NIP's recieved and have you done anything with them yet?

Edit: I see you say received over the course of the last 8 weeks. I presume your husband returned the S172 requests naming you as driver. Have you recieved your own NIPs yet?
stupidspeeder
I have received two back in my own name which I sent off yesterday. The third I only got yesterday so my husband had yet to send it off.

I have never done a awareness course but thought these were only offered to people with a clean license? I would definatly take it if it was too avoid one lot of the three points? Could this be an option? I am in essex by the way, does anyone know the speed margins there?
The Rookie
QUOTE (stupidspeeder @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 12:46) *
thought these were only offered to people with a clean license? I would definatly take it if it was too avoid one lot of the three points? Could this be an option? I am in essex by the way, does anyone know the speed margins there?

Criteria is based on speed only, anything upto +10%+9mph over the limit (so 42 in a 30) will normally be offered a course if the offence is in England or Wales (not Scotland for info), you will be invited and it will cost circa £100, take about 4 hours and you get no points.
Jlc
QUOTE (stupidspeeder @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 12:46) *
I have never done a awareness course but thought these were only offered to people with a clean license? I would definatly take it if it was too avoid one lot of the three points? Could this be an option? I am in essex by the way, does anyone know the speed margins there?

Awareness courses are offered up to +10%+9mph of the limit, so 42mph in a 30. The only other catch is that only 1 can be done every 3 years - no clean licence is required.

EDIT: The Rookie beat me to it - had my browser window open too long... cool.gif

You should be able to take 1 course and 2 fixed penalties. Your current 3 points will expire (for totting purposes) 3 years after the date of offence.

This will leave you on 9 points and any future offence (until the original points drop off) will see that summons. An exceptional hardship plea can reduce (potentially to none) the period of the ban but one to avoid.

Remember to check out the implications of the insurance policy - the insurer may need advising prior to renewal. They are likely to impose an additional premium.
stupidspeeder
so i assume i still have to send all the NIP's back as normal and wait to see what i get offered? I take it ill have to send my license off to be endorsed for the first two lots of points but then when i send the third NIP back will they then offer me the course straight up or will i still have to go to court for hte magistrate to decide that? Is it still then at desecration of the magistrate?

Am i best off getting legal advise now or wait to see what happens?

ss
The Rookie
Yup, send them back and they will offer you what they offer you.

The Police decide whether they allow you the chance to bribe your way out of it (the course ends up paying their wages in a roundabout way) the courts have no power at all to order a course.

You have legal advice on here, no need for any other, certainly not at this stage.
stupidspeeder
so just one last thing, if i send them back and get no offer of a course just a summons, i assume i haven't been offered one...and will probably go to court and get a ban unless i can plead special reason?

thanks
Jlc
They will almost certainly offer the course - but it is discretionary and they do not have to.

If they issue CoFP's then you wouldn't be able to accept one that reaches 12 points.

norahl
I can't see a reason they will not offer you a course for one offence. That will leave you on 9 points and the course will assist with you not reaching the 12...although the rate at which you are clocking them up may prevent that helping before your next ticket.

Buy a Highway Code while you wait.
southpaw82
QUOTE (norahl @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 18:04) *
Buy a Highway Code while you wait.


Or re-read the one from your driving course rolleyes.gif
What have your bosses said about all this? You have told them, right?
JP1978
Nothing to add really, not going to judge you (as at the end of the day, many of us find ourselves here for similar circumstances) but just to say driving on 9 points for a year, is, from experience not nice. It sure does help to focus your mind, especially if driving round an area like London that I was.

What I found to help:
Keep the radio off or low, especially in unfamiliar areas.
Dont get distracted with talking to passengers.
Lock your mobile in the boot/handbag on back seat EVERY time. You cant risk scratching your ear and some eejit copper assuming you are on a mobile (it does happen)
As above, be more aware of the speeds allowed for the class of vehicle your driving. Always look for the speed signs and if there is a lack of repeaters, always assume its a 30 even if the road 'looks' like its a faster road.

Good luck on the speed awareness course.

If by chance (admin cock up) you get a couple of offers of the courses, come back on here for advice how to proceed.
stupidspeeder

No ive not told work yet. I'm off work for two weeks but ill see what I'm sent first.

Ill update when I get the replies.

Thanks.
Mattd
You have to inform your professional standards dept considering it is a possibility you may be disqualified due to Totting. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this. It would be a breach of the standards of professional behaviour not to inform them. Tell them straight away.
The Rookie
Eh, doesn't that somewhat depend on what work he does (and I can't find a mention of it)......

I don't even have a proffesional standards dept at work!
Mattd
The OP says in their post they are a police officer working part time.
NeverMind
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 22 Aug 2013 - 14:17) *
Eh, doesn't that somewhat depend on what work he does (and I can't find a mention of it)......

I don't even have a proffesional standards dept at work!


She is a Police Officer.

The Rookie
Argh, then yes! Found it now.....
Mattd
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 22 Aug 2013 - 16:08) *
Argh, then yes! Found it now.....


No worries, the police service takes non disclosure of pending criminal matters very seriously. My force run a self referral for fixed penalty tickets upto 6 points but a potential court appearance definitely needs to be disclosed.

OP, contact your federation rep who is trained on discipline matters and they will tell you exactly what to do. Personally I'd suggest you not post further here as unlike other posters as a serving officer you are subject to a much lowr standard of proof in a discipline case which is much more likely to have a significant impact on your life than the actually court case. The federation will get you a solicitor at no cost.
desktop_demon
I find it quite reassuring that the BiB/GiB come to PePiPoo first for advice about possible motoring offenses. We must be doing something right! happy.gif

I find it "quaint" that the Police need to be told by the alleged offender that the the alleged offender is under investigation and is a police person, but I suppose it would explain a lot...
ukboxer
I really need to stop looking at the title of this thread when I sit down to eat pottytrain5.gif
southpaw82
QUOTE (desktop_demon @ Fri, 23 Aug 2013 - 11:15) *
I find it "quaint" that the Police need to be told by the alleged offender that the the alleged offender is under investigation and is a police person, but I suppose it would explain a lot...


If you're caught in a different force area to the one you work in?
Mattd
QUOTE (desktop_demon @ Fri, 23 Aug 2013 - 11:15) *
I find it quite reassuring that the BiB/GiB come to PePiPoo first for advice about possible motoring offenses. We must be doing something right! happy.gif

I find it "quaint" that the Police need to be told by the alleged offender that the the alleged offender is under investigation and is a police person, but I suppose it would explain a lot...


Even the smaller forces have around 2,000 police officers and 2,000 or more members of police staff. The safety camera partnerships, only loosely a part of the local police force, process god knows how many camera or road side stops for speeding each week. There is no marker that goes on a police officer/staff members car to indicate they work for the organisation. In any event as SP points out there are over 40 Home OFfice police forces to get caught by. Unless someone points it out it very easily slips the net.

:-) Dont laugh....but....A police officer integrity is the one thing that the professional standards bods will not have compromised. Not in my experience. If there is any suggestion that an officer has attempted to avoid sanction by lying or failing to disclose information they knew they should about pending criminal matters then that on its own is a job loser. No matter what the outcome for original matter.
norahl
QUOTE (Mattd @ Sat, 24 Aug 2013 - 00:08) *
QUOTE (desktop_demon @ Fri, 23 Aug 2013 - 11:15) *
I find it quite reassuring that the BiB/GiB come to PePiPoo first for advice about possible motoring offenses. We must be doing something right! happy.gif

I find it "quaint" that the Police need to be told by the alleged offender that the the alleged offender is under investigation and is a police person, but I suppose it would explain a lot...


Even the smaller forces have around 2,000 police officers and 2,000 or more members of police staff. The safety camera partnerships, only loosely a part of the local police force, process god knows how many camera or road side stops for speeding each week. There is no marker that goes on a police officer/staff members car to indicate they work for the organisation. In any event as SP points out there are over 40 Home OFfice police forces to get caught by. Unless someone points it out it very easily slips the net.

:-) Dont laugh....but....A police officer integrity is the one thing that the professional standards bods will not have compromised. Not in my experience. If there is any suggestion that an officer has attempted to avoid sanction by lying or failing to disclose information they knew they should about pending criminal matters then that on its own is a job loser. No matter what the outcome for original matter.

Every safety camera partnership that is issuing fixed penalties for speeding that I know, that is all of them, have a ticket office and enforcement office that is organised and run as part of the police operations. To issue a conditional offer of fixed penalty a constable must be involved in any case. If you can describe how a constable forms a "loose connection" to the police (perhaps I shouldn't have asked that! biggrin.gif ) then please do so.
The Rookie
I think he was referring to the admin, not the legal structure......
norahl
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 24 Aug 2013 - 14:53) *
I think he was referring to the admin, not the legal structure......


The administration personel are almost always police staff. The ones I know who are not, and there isn't many who are not, are on contract to the police.
Mattd
My local safety camera partnership (the clue is in the name) are a mixture of people employed by the local highways authority, local govt and police staff. For prosecution process they use the police criminal justice units. They are not seen as a "police" entity, they don't drive marked police vehicles etc and they are entirely self funding. In any event how I feel about how loosely connected or otherwise they are to the police doesn't really help the OP.
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