RocketRonnieRadox
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 15:22
Dear all.
A kind member has been helping me but has not responded to mails lately so I assume is otherwise engaged.
I received my original letter around 6 June and wrote back via the web appealing on the grounds that the charge was punative and un enforceable.
I hear nothing back until recently when I got the rejection due to not providing sufficient evidence to show that I did not break the rules on the signage and the popla code.
This is easily over 35 days since I asked for the PCN to be canvcelled and asked for the popla code.
Question is now - do I have a good chance of fighting this or should I just give up and pay the expletives.
Kind regards.
Rocket
Gan
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 15:36
Why would you pay when they've handed you the appeal on a plate ?
That's one of the automatic wins at POPLA - the PPC took more than 35 days to reject the challenge
Read up for other points to include such as a requirement to produce the contract
kommando
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 15:40
No, the POPLA code is the golden key and the right appeal will win, 2 defences are favourites currently. One asking for site of the contract between Land owner and PE and also requiring a full breakdown of pre estimated loses caused by the parking event. The is a link to a POPLA appeal generator around which works well. Plus the longer than 35 days too.
M267
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 17:19
No, the POPLA code is the golden key and the right appeal will win, 2 defences are favourites currently. One asking for site SIGHT of the contract between Land owner and PE and also requiring a full breakdown of pre estimated loses LOSSES caused by the parking event. The is a link to a POPLA appeal generator around which works well. Plus the longer than 35 days too.
Not being pedantic here kommando.
Just clarifying for a newbie
RocketRonnieRadox
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 19:42
Many thanks for the replies.
I am just worried that I'll end up with a £185 bill and court papers etc.
By the sounds of things you guys think I have a good chance so may fight this now.
I'll do a search for the generator but any other pointers greatly appreciated.
Regards
Rocket
matt285
Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 21:27
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Tue, 20 Aug 2013 - 20:42)
I am just worried that I'll end up with a £185 bill and court papers etc.
If you do your POPLA appeal well then this will unlikely happen. You however need to make sure you include everything in the appeal that you can, not only the 35 day limit... fight them from every possible angle and the success will be yours (sounds a bit like japanese warrior talk doesn't it?)
Have a go at a first draft and then come back for feedback - either post it up here, or if you prefer you can PM me (or someone else who you trust on this forum) for some help.
Good luck!
RocketRonnieRadox
Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 10:23
Thanks Mat,
I just checked the date on the appeal rejection and I think I am out of time.
The letter was sent while I was on annual leave on 24/7 and its now the 21/8
Today is day 28.
Aside from this I checked the POPLA dates here -
http://pepipoo.3owl.com/poplacodecheck/Which gives: The date calculate from the POPLA Code is 13/06/2013
Am I now scuppered ?
matt285
Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 10:34
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 11:23)
Am I now scuppered ?
Just PM'd you - all is not lost if you act fast.
Good luck!
The Slithy Tove
Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 14:09
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 11:23)
Which gives: The date calculate from the POPLA Code is 13/06/2013
Am I now scuppered ?
Far from it. PE have once again been paying fast and loose with the rules, which shows how disreputable they are. Why on earth would you want to pay people like that?
Looks like they issued the POPLA code back in June, but have only just "remembered" to send it out. Naughty, naughty. Deserves one almighty complaint to the BPA and POPLA.
matt285
Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 15:10
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 15:09)
Looks like they issued the POPLA code back in June, but have only just "remembered" to send it out. Naughty, naughty. Deserves one almighty complaint to the BPA and POPLA.
You never know with them. But so far POPLA has played by the book in not refusing appeals simply because the code is too old, as long as the Appellant has documented when he first got it. After all, it's not the Appellant's fault if the code was calculated incorrectly. But I've already advised the OP to also complain to the BPA.
RocketRonnieRadox
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 13:35
Hi all.
Can PE or the likes refuse if a landowner has requested cancellation of the charge ?
Is it dependent on time / stage of the PCN and appeal etc or can it be cancelled at any time the the landowner ?
Thanks in advance
kommando
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 14:12
No, landowner is the dog, PE are the tail. Get the landowners request in writing so if it gets to court it can the thrown out, PE are mad enough to not see what they are letting themselves in for or just push for spite.
matt285
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 17:53
QUOTE (matt285 @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 16:10)
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Wed, 21 Aug 2013 - 15:09)
Looks like they issued the POPLA code back in June, but have only just "remembered" to send it out. Naughty, naughty. Deserves one almighty complaint to the BPA and POPLA.
You never know with them. But so far POPLA has played by the book in not refusing appeals simply because the code is too old, as long as the Appellant has documented when he first got it. After all, it's not the Appellant's fault if the code was calculated incorrectly. But I've already advised the OP to also complain to the BPA.
Just to update this, the OP told me POPLA has refused to hear his appeal because it has timed out; however the landowner has requested that the PCNs be cancelled.
I think this should have some complaints to the Lead Adjudicator at POPLA because the appeal was not submitted too late, only the code given was way out of time.
Any comments?
matt285
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 17:54
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 14:35)
Hi all.
Can PE or the likes refuse if a landowner has requested cancellation of the charge ?
Is it dependent on time / stage of the PCN and appeal etc or can it be cancelled at any time the the landowner ?
Thanks in advance
This thread refers to the following original thread:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=859987@ OP: one item one thread please
DBC
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 17:56
Knowing the tricks PE try to pull, I bet they will demand £50 in "expenses" before they cancel, even when requested by the principle.
The Slithy Tove
Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 20:51
QUOTE (matt285 @ Tue, 3 Sep 2013 - 18:53)
I think this should have some complaints to the Lead Adjudicator at POPLA because the appeal was not submitted too late, only the code given was way out of time.
Any comments?
Put in a complaint to the BPA Ltd, and demand an explanation for the issuing of an out of date POPLA code from one of their members. Don't let them fob you off.(Don't mention for now that the PCN's been dropped, otherwise BPA Ltd may not take it so seriously. Just say that PE sent you a POPLA code
X days after it had been issued, and so POPLA refused to hear your appeal, and you want an explanation.)
RocketRonnieRadox
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 09:18
Thanks Matt,
Just to clarify, I received the POPLA code from PE on the 26th July 2013 (Dated 24 July) and I was in Greece and returned 7th Aug to the UK.
Parking charge occurred 27 May
Requested POPLA code 1st time 05/Jun
Then second time via the web appeal form on 16/7
Code received 26 july.
Appeal to POPLA posted on 22/08 (have PO receipt)
Trakcing info -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your item with reference KF169655601GB was delivered from our HORNSEY Delivery Office on 23/08/13 .
Thank you for using our Royal Mail Signed For™ service
Printed name: POPLA Signature Time: 23/08/13 10:05:00 BST
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was under the impression that the reason for POPLA rejecting the appeal was because I had not responded within the 28 day period they grant -
Wording -
Unfortunatly your appeal was received more than 28 days after the rejection of your representations by the parking operator. Our website makes it clear that if you want to appeal against the the operators decision to POPLA you have 28 days to do this.
The adjudicator has therefore directed that your appeal cannot be registered.
In order to avoid any further action by the operator payment of any amounts should now be made without delay.
Do I have a leg to stand on or was I too late ?
Thanks in advance.
Ron.
kommando
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 09:53
From and including: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 (assumes 28 days starts from date PE sent code)
To, but not including Friday, August 23, 2013
Result: 30 days
It is 30 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date
RocketRonnieRadox
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 13:03
Thanks kommando,
question is whether or not I have any chance based on this.
matt mentioned an out of date popla code giving me some kind of chance or was that a misunderstanding andf I have to bite the bullet and pay if PE dont allow the landowner to cancel the PCN ?
Landowner has email PE and asked them to cancel the charge yesterday and I have a copy of the mail
RocketRonnieRadox
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 13:06
kommando
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 15:28
You can only try, use the fact the PPC was outside the 35 days plus you holiday as mitigating circumstances plus POPLA's own backlog of cases which means a late appeal has no effect.
matt285
Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 15:32
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 14:03)
Thanks kommando,
question is whether or not I have any chance based on this.
matt mentioned an out of date popla code giving me some kind of chance or was that a misunderstanding andf I have to bite the bullet and pay if PE dont allow the landowner to cancel the PCN ?
Landowner has email PE and asked them to cancel the charge yesterday and I have a copy of the mail
I would suggest you do like Slithy Tove has suggested above, complain to BPA AOS about this.
You submitted the appeal to POPLA well within 28 days from receiving the code from the Operator. Actually you submitted it on day 26 after receiving the code. Anything else is not of your bother. Ask the BPA to clarify how your appeal can be denied consideration by POPLA if you have done everything correct.
I think the crux of the matter is that currently POPLA doesn't check when you received the code, only when it was issued by the Operator. But obviously this is totally wrong. So get the BPA to confirm what's going on.
PS: Also appeal on the same grounds to the Lead Adjudicator direct at POPLA. After all they are the people who have invented the code system so if it doesn't work then they have to sort it out.
SchoolRunMum
Thu, 5 Sep 2013 - 00:27
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 14:03)
Thanks kommando,
question is whether or not I have any chance based on this.
matt mentioned an out of date popla code giving me some kind of chance or was that a misunderstanding andf I have to bite the bullet and pay if PE dont allow the landowner to cancel the PCN ?
Landowner has email PE and asked them to cancel the charge yesterday and I have a copy of the mail
You won't be paying if the landowner has told their agent to cancel the stupid fake PCN. PE act for the landowner, not the other way round!
RocketRonnieRadox
Thu, 5 Sep 2013 - 08:31
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 5 Sep 2013 - 01:27)
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Wed, 4 Sep 2013 - 14:03)
Thanks kommando,
question is whether or not I have any chance based on this.
matt mentioned an out of date popla code giving me some kind of chance or was that a misunderstanding andf I have to bite the bullet and pay if PE dont allow the landowner to cancel the PCN ?
Landowner has email PE and asked them to cancel the charge yesterday and I have a copy of the mail
You won't be paying if the landowner has told their agent to cancel the stupid fake PCN. PE act for the landowner, not the other way round!
Thanks School Run Mum, I'm a school run dad btw ! know the feeling.
OK If you are right I will be very happy. Landowners warden advised to call today to find out what PE said so fingers and toes crossed.
Will update later with the outcome if I have one.
Kind regards and thanks for the help so far.
Radox.
Broadsman
Thu, 5 Sep 2013 - 09:51
RRR,
Whatever the outcome, keep the email from the Landowner.
Never know what tricks PE will attempt to pull at a later date.
RocketRonnieRadox
Fri, 6 Sep 2013 - 10:08
Good news - Spoke to the landowner ho has been told by PE that it will be quashed.
Confirmation in writing to follow.
kommando
Fri, 6 Sep 2013 - 11:35
Well done.
SchoolRunMum
Fri, 6 Sep 2013 - 22:55
QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Fri, 6 Sep 2013 - 11:08)
Good news - Spoke to the landowner ho has been told by PE that it will be quashed.
Confirmation in writing to follow.
Well done! Great news on here tonight; a couple of POPLA appeal successes reported and now all these complaint successes too!
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