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nam085
Hi,

I have read some posts on this forum but couldn't really find what I needed so thought it would be best to create my own.

Earlier this year the parking behind the block of apartments where I live was handed over to a private parking company (Private Parking Solutions (PPS)). I have lived there for 5 years and previously there were no restrictions. I was away for 2 weeks, came back at night and parked my car where I usually do. There were some new parking boards around (none near where I parked) which I did not notice as it was dark. The next day I found a ticket on my car stating I was fined as I did not have a permit. I was completely oblivious to the new parking rules, the residents were not sent any notification about these changes, so I was pretty annoyed and furious. Anyway, I called the company (PPS), whom as you can imagine were rude not helpful but what baffled me was when they stated that I did not need a permit to park but was not parked appropriately, mind you there are no marked bays nor was there any 'no parking' sign next to where I parked.

I did a bit of research through PePiPoo, appealed to PPS, which was rejected and then appealed to POPLA. I was very confident about my appeal as not only was I not informed about the change in parking rules as a resident but also because the company was contradicting themselves. How is anyone supposed to know where it's appropriate to park and where not when there are no bays plus my ticket said 'no permit' and they had told me I do not need a permit. It all sounded ludicrous to me.

I spent a considerable amount of time drafting my appeal letter and was very very confident it would be accepted however to my surprise POPLA rejected it. They took around 2.5 months to get back to me as well. Now I don't want to go on and on and would be happy to provide the whole email history of my correspondences if needed but I am pretty adamant not to pay this fine on principle if not anything else and would like to know what my next course of action should be. I would be very grateful for some advice as this is proving to be more hassle than I have time for and my hearts saying no, don't you dare pay the fine but my mind's saying pay it and get done with it.

I did get a bit upset after POPLA rejected my appeal and wrote them the following response so I hope that wasn't a bad move. It explains my dilemma a little bit though.

I don't want to ignore the threats from the parking company to pay the fine and would rather just get in their faces and have it out with them if I choose not to pay the fine and fight for my right!

I look forward to some useful feedback and many many thanks in advance!

Dear Sir or Madam,

Upon having read the reasons for the outcome of your appeal I am sorry to say that I find your investigation poor, biased and completely disagree with the reasoning for refusing my appeal. I thought I had made everything quite clear and given enough detail to understand the situation but all of that seems to have been overlooked.

I made it abundantly clear that even PRESENTLY a permit is NOT required to park there and this is what the operators employee informed me when I contacted them after receiving my ticket. If a permit is NOT required to park there how can I be issued with a ticket for not having a permit? My appeal should have been refused based solely on being issued a ticket for an invalid reason and receiving contradictory information from the parking operator!

To reiterate myself the operators employee informed me that I was fined for parking in an 'inappropriate'/'no parking' area however there are no marked bays for parking in the entire area either. The sign in the photos you have referred to is about 15-20 metres away from where I was parked. Even to this date I am not aware or have been informed of any permit required to park there and how to get a hold of one.

Lastly, you said the operator was unable to produce any evidence of sending notice of the parking restrictions being put in place however because the signs were put up 2 weeks before the ticket was issued that is considered sufficient. I disagree with this as I had been away for last 2-3 weeks, came and parked up the night before, woke up the next day and found the ticket on there. The signs were not visible to me at that time of the night and I do not consider myself to be liable to follow any change in rules for which I did not receive any official correspondence. Only after receiving my ticket and making inquiries did I discover these new parking rules that had been put in place and up until then it was all guesswork!

I would like to request the appeal to be re-evaluated in a more competent manner or to be informed of what the next steps to appeal are as I refuse to pay this fine on principle.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours Sincerely,
Jlc
POPLA don't do mitigation. Can you post up the response?

More importantly, what documentation do you have on the parking, e.g. lease?

Have you been informed on the parking arrangements now? I would expect the management company to have issued permits etc.?

(btw it's not a fine)

Their only option now is to issue a county court claim - some of the answers above are relevant. Indeed, they may be trespassing themselves.
nigelbb
You need to lodge a complaint to the POPLA Lead Adjudicator citing malpractice & incompetence. Can you post up the full POPLA decision so we can see which of their assessors cannot read the documents submitted or understand logic.
nam085
Thanks for responses, I have attached the POPLA response letter.

More importantly, what documentation do you have on the parking, e.g. lease?
Have you been informed on the parking arrangements now? I would expect the management company to have issued permits etc.?

The response to Jlc's questions above is: none, when I inquired I was told that you can only park in the bays and nothing received from our management company either. The next door management company has issued permits but you don't really need them. I have been parking there since without permits. It's difficult to explain without showing photos but there are areas (which are not marked) with space to park cars and there is lots of other space however nothing is clearly marked and like I stated earlier I parked in the same space I have parked in for the last 5 years however have not risked parking there since I got the fine. But how is one supposed to ascertain where it's ok to park and where it isn't without any marked bays. I only figured it out after I got fined and made a number of inquiries.

Hope this helps!

p.s. let me know if would you like me to put up my correspondence prior to this as well.

oops sorry forgot to attach it!
The Slithy Tove
It's not clear whether you own the flat or rent it. What you really need is the exact wording of the lease, which you will have if you own the property, or your landlord will have if rented. This is the definitive document, and will state if there are allocated spaces assigned to the property, and what other parking arrangements there are.

While the ticket (it's NOT a fine, don't think of it as such) is still unenforceable, and so no need even to think about paying anything, the lease information will, hopefully, provide the killer answers. At the end of the day, all that could be sued for are damages to the landowner (you/your landlord/possibly the freeholder), which will be zero.
Jlc
POPLA had little choice - operator says signs were displayed, operator shows pictures of car park with signs... (You didn't provide any of the killer challenges so had to rule this way, bizarrely)

But from what you are saying you left and come back (in the dark) a few weeks later and the signs were erected whilst you were away. No notification of the scheme was received. These schemes should be designed to only allow residents to park - not to penalise them! (Although their only income is via issuing tickets so you see why they aren't keen to let go)

As you have made a stand, wait and see if they issue a court claim - but you need to check lease details etc. as mentioned above. You should be chasing the 'management company' as they have contracted them - you must be entitled to a permit etc.!

Just be wary that they may be looking at this forum too. (Might be an idea to redact your details)
nam085
Thanks for heads up Jlc, I have removed the letter now, which I was planning on doing later.

There are what one would presume to be allocated parking spaces however this is open to interpretation as nothing is clearly marked. There is a row of garages which are rented out and the freeholder owns that land. There were never any restrictions before however a couple people left their cars there without road tax and from what I know now the freeholder hired PPS to look after the land.

Should I still contact my landlord to check the lease?

I need to reiterate that even presently a permit is not required to park there. You only need to ensure you are parked in the 'allocated bays', which I know know what they mean after this whole episode. So, again my question is how can I get a ticket for not having a permit when I don't need one as long as I'm parked in the 'allocated bays', which mind you is guesswork until you get a ticket and are forced to find out.


nam085
Hi guys,

I made a post sometime ago about my POPLA appeal being rejected, which I thought was completely unjust, see link below for details.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82464&hl=

I have not paid the fine, mainly out of principle because I strongly feel I was not in the wrong however I am now getting debt recovery letters as they have passed it on to a debt recovery agency. I am firstly looking for confirmation that this won't effect my credit history and also how I should proceed with the matter? Should I ignore them?

If I get a court action as a result what should I do then as I am a complete novice in this area.

Would really appreciate some sound advice on this whole matter.

Many Thanks!
Jlc
These debt collectors cannot affect your credit history. There's little point in contacting them other than to pay or tell them there is no debt.

Only if it goes to court and they win and you don't pay... CCJ's
nam085
Thanks Jlc for your help again! smile.gif Would you recommend I pay or risk it going to court? Is there any link like the one you posted above that gives advice on how to handle court action? I've never been in a situation like this before so would prefer to be a bit prepared beforehand and am interested in general.
kommando
Have you checked your lease, this will trump any silly invoices. As the parking permit thing is new its highly likely your lease will be as you want it to read.
Jlc
Indeedy - look at this recent thread...

Shows how to 'win' at POPLA.
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