Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Debt Collector made contact for 2011 PCN
FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
TheBigBad
A traffic warden was in the process of issuing a PCN against my car in December 2011 just as I returned to the vehicle. I got in the car and drove away before he had a chance to place the ticket onto the car. I later got a letter from the council telling me I needed to pay. I sent in an appeal stating that as far as I was concerned, no PCN was ever issued and could they please provide photographic evidence both the issued ticket and the alleged contravention. I never heard anything else from them.

A few months later I did move house but the council were notified of my new address for council tax and electoral roll purposes. As I had not heard back regarding the PCN I just assumed that they had decided not to pursue.

Yesterday a debt collector called and wanted me to pay. I refused and I said I did not acknowledge the debt. They asked for my new address which I did not give.

I now need to contact the council regarding this. Do they need to prove that the PCN was actually placed onto my car? As it was so long ago I do not have the letter the council sent me in 2011.
Mr Mustard
I assume you also notified DVLA?

This PCN will almost certainly have fallen foul of the London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking and Traffic Enforcement (paragraph 170e) or, outside of London, what the tribunal would find unacceptable, which is that a delay of 6 months at any stage of the processing means the PCN should be cancelled. The principle is that justice delayed is justice denied as you won't still have the paperwork.

This post on my blog shows how the London adjudicators don't like this way of going on. The council would need a very good reason to wake this ticket up from the sleep it has been having and them needing the money isn't one. If the debt collector who called on you was a bailiff then it is possible that time limits were not breached (as his warrant is valid for a year) but I suspect they were.

What you need to get now from the council is copies of the PCN/Notice to Owner (if served with a Regulation 10 PCN by post they are in effect the same document) a copy of your appeal and of their Notice of Rejection of Representations, the Charge Certificate and the Order for Recovery and any other documents they may have sent you.

They don't need to prove the PCN was placed on their car as there is provision for them to serve by post. Had he printed the ticket before you left the scene?

Did the debt collector call by phone or in person. If they send you any letters please remove personal details and post them on here.

I don't think you will be paying this PCN.
bama
QUOTE
I later got a letter from the council telling me I needed to pay.

It wasn't a "letter"
as above, need to know the document trail
Incandescent
QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 15 Aug 2013 - 11:15) *
QUOTE
I later got a letter from the council telling me I needed to pay.

It wasn't a "letter"
as above, need to know the document trail

It looks like you received the Notice to Owner, and did not appeal. All documents are sent to the address on the V5 registration document, that is a legal requirement. SO if you didn't update this, then they may have gone astray. It is going to be very hard to turn this around, frankly. I advise contacting bailiffadviceonline; fee payable but small compared to bailiff fees.

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk
hcandersen
I think you need to start at the back of the process and move forward:

1. Has a warrant been issued? Contact TEC and find out. A "debt collector" is not necessarily a bailiff armed with a warrant. Do this ASP or your car might be at risk.

2. If a warrant has been issued, then in respect of what? At present you are assuming a causal link between the 2011 events and the debt collector, but this has yet to be established.

3. If the events of 2011, then you'll need to fill us in on the notices/responses you've received/made and your address as registered keeper.
TheBigBad
ok, will contact TEC tomorrow.

I did update details on V5 when I moved.

I believe it was a notice to owner that was sent, I did appeal and just never had a reply. I no longer own that car, I part exchanged it in April 2012.

Also, the debt collector phoned me on my mobile, they asked for my current address to send correspondence, I refused to give them any details.
TheBigBad
I have now found some documents from Solihull Council. It appears that I did get an NtO which I dont remember so I wrote to them asking for another.

I have left the name on the letters as that was not the name on the V5 nor is it my name (or my wifes). The letter dated 13th August 2012 references a Mark McAleal of 11 Brookside, Dinas Powys, CF64 4LA as being the registered keeper. That is not me, nor has it ever been me. They said they would only accept representations from him, obviously I cannot do that as I am not him. Also, by this time I had sold the vehicle and no longer had the V5.













Incandescent
So who is the debt collector trying to collect from ? He called at your address, yet the NTO you've posted doesn't have your address on it.

So what happened when you contacted the TEC ?
Enceladus
The letter of the 23rd May 2012 implies that some person submitted a Witness Statement to the TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre). We are not told the date of the TEC decision but my guess is April or May 2012.

Was that person you or your wife?

You mentioned you part-ex'ed the car in April 2012? However was the car correctly registered, on Jan 4th 2012, with the DVLA as to name & address of the registered keeper?

Please ring the TEC first thing on Monday. Make it clear that you have a bailiff threatening you. In addition to the questions that HCA asked please also establish when the warrant, if there is one, was issued and against what address? And if such warrant has ever been re-issued against any other address.

A warrant (assuming there is one which is not yet established), can only be enforced against the person named and at the address stated.

Did you query the incorrect name on the Notice to Owner at the time you challenged?
TheBigBad
I think I wrote to TEC to say I had not had an NtO. Not sure to be honest.

I bought the car in November 2011, when the V5 arrived it had the correct name and address on it, we never changed anything on and then part ex'd it in April 2012.

And no, I never queried the incorrect name on any documents
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.