Received ticket for parking in a free shopping centre car park for over-staying by 15 minutes (3 hour limit). Ignored all correspondence (binned). Received Claim form from court.

Should I pay this now?

first question

which parking company ?

LostinUK

Nope, not in my opinion, why would you seeing as even if it went to a hearing and you actually lost (rare!) you could still pay a similar amount (Notice to Keeper amount plus typically only a small court fee and possibly, say, £50 costs if the judge imposed them too) and you'd have no CCJ or anything adverse to show for it.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...mp;gopid=847263

Read all the links & info there and post any questions here, about acknowledging the claim (which extends the time to 28 days) then sending your 'skeleton defence'. Have a good look around the first few pages of this forum and see how many Parking Eye and CEL cases are being defended by fairly unfazed and stoic newbies like you, with no court experience but who recognise and unfair and punitive 'charge' when they see one.

Thanks lostinUK - ParkingEye Ltd

I think I've messed this up having left it so late (need to pay by 27-07) and also by not challenging it sooner via PPC and POPLA as law now changed.....

Thanks SchoolRunMum - my wife actually got the ticket and she would be happy and willing to attend court if she had an argument to offer - however we live in London and court is Northampton, so not prepared to drive so far...

My daughter also received a ticket from same car park, for same reason a short time after, so we are expecting another court summons.....perhaps that one can be salvaged?

You need to get yourself straight here...
1/ Northampton is the bulk issuing centre, any hearing will be at the court of your choosing
2/ You deny the claim in full and then get the time to enter your defence, show weakness and they'll up the anti on what they will 'accept'.
3/ Most PE claims to court were for pre 1/10/12 incidences when POPLA wasn't an option.

Any reason for the overstay?

Thank you Rookie - unfortunately, no good reason - all of us have been using the car park for years without realising there was a 3 hour limit.....we now see there are signs at the entrance and hi on poles down the middle of the area - there are several different shops in the centre

We're the signs there on the day and time you got the ticket?

Yes, I assume so

OK, to clarify, the PPC will claim you entered a contract under which you agreed to leave within 3 hours and they will be claiming losses (totally fabricated of course, what losses can they have!) for that, if you can convince a court you weren't aware of the restrictions then you couldn't eneter into that contract.

Then if there are no losses, what can they claim? (remember bank charges, a 'penalty' is unenforceable under a contract).

That's just 2 reasons they have no case, once faced with a meaningful defence they will usually not pay the 'allocation fee' to take it to the court of your choosing.

Just drove to car park to check - see attached image of sign



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The signs are very obvious and clear in their message - I don't know how long they were up before we got the ticket, surely ignorance is no defence?

"Failure to comply with the following will results in a Parking Charge of £85" should read "Failure to comply with any of the following will results in a Parking Charge of £85"

"Failure to comply" indicates that the parking charge is liquidated damages for breach of contract. Any damages for breach of contract must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The loss sustained by overstaying in a free car park is zero.

Who did you enter into a contract with? ParkingEye? They don't own the car park so by what right do they try & charge you? Any contract must have been with the landowner and any losses would be due to the landowner. Do PE have a contract with the landowner allowing them to charge people for use of the car park?

There is nothing to "salvage". It is ParkingEye who would need a salvage operation to get anything out of this, not you.

"Failure to comply with the following" makes it crystal clear that the charge is damages for breach of contract. So what losses have they incurred? Hint: it's not a million miles from £0.00.

And those signs are not obvious and clear. If you were driving into the car park, would you be able to read the sign without stopping? If you need to stop your car, get out and produce your reading glasses then they are on very dodgy ground as regards signage. I'm willing to bet there is not a colossal entrance sign, as there should be. If you've already parked without your attention previously being drawn ineluctably to the terms and conditions then it's too late for them, you didn't enter into any contract.

so the defence should be ?:
1) RK did not knowingly enter into a contract with PE as did not see the signs on driving into and parking. In any case, it is not clear that PE is the landowner, who would be the only party with authority to bring this claim.
2) The signs are high on poles and not easily read and additional signs appear to have subsequently erected in the parking area after the date that the alleged offence was committed.

signs clearly shows PE acting as agent - so the landowner made the offer of parking. get into the landowner to cancel (and ask the landowner for a copy of the contract with PE)

How does one find the landowner? - tried Google....

The headline on the sign says 3 hour max stay, further down it says - Parking Limited to 3 hours

Staying, in Parking Eyeworld, is from the time the cameras captured the car on the way in to when they captured the car on the way out.

Staying and parking are two different things. In this instance, 'parking' could be defined as the time the car was stationary in the parking position you chose.

The parking charge notice refers to an overstay.

Although the OP says the signs are very obvious and clear, on one of the most critical aspects they are not clear at all and are, of course, weighted in PE's favour.

any signs there re 'site management office/contact' or similar
could ask a retailer
and google a good search engine gives:
http://outoftownretail.joneslanglasalle.co...eme&id=2163
http://www.192.com/atoz/business/sudbury-c...bd7f63d37fc/ml/

Can you read all the small print when stood below the sign? If not that would be another point!

Yes, can just about read the small print. The signs are down the middle of the parking spaced every 3rd double row of cars with no signs at the sides where the shops are.

There are 2 similar signs at the entrance - I think when we checked at the time of the ticket, there was only one.

Thanks Bama, for those links, but there probably is not enough time to go down that route - it's either defend or pay...

As long as the general opinion is that our defence above is sufficient, I think we will defend? I assume we can just reply in layman's terms without legal references?

could ask a retailer
ir just ring Jones Lang LaSalle

In which case any contract for parking is with the landowner so as ParkingEye were not party to that contract they cannot sue the OP for any losses due to the landowner.

Thanks everybody for all the help and advice - have submitted defence

Hopefully will go ok

Will let you know result in due course

Hi All - just replying to LBA on behalf of my daughter, I wonder if someone could please check if adequate...Thanks

ParkingEye Ltd
P O Box 565
Chorley
PR6 6HT

4th August 2013

Dear Sir / Madam

Reference: Parking Charge Notice Vehicle. Registration:

This is a formal acknowledgement of the Letter Before Action dated 26th July 2013 as required by the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct.

The Defendant would like to point out that the Claimant has not complied with the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct on the following points:

1. The Letter before Action does not offer an appropriate form of Alternative Dispute Resolution.

2. The Claimant has not detailed on what basis the amount of £85.00 has been calculated. The Defendant requires a detailed breakdown of the Claimant’s loss and how it has been calculated.

3. The Defendant also requests a list of the documents that the Claimant is going to rely on in Court.

The Defendant is unable to comply with the Practice Direction until the above information has been provided. Alternatively you may simply wish to cancel the parking charge.

Yours sincerely

I'm no expert on LBAs/LBCs, but it looks, from my relatively untrained eye but from the few I've seen previously, to be OK.

I presume you've seen the thread on MSE on Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct? If not here is the link:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpo...amp;postcount=1

Also, do you know that the PE response will be pretty vitriolic and antagonistic. If you're not fighting any deadline on this, perhaps leave sending for 24 hours to see if anyone else might want to comment.

Definitely come back when you've received the PE reply.