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Faraz_stani
Hi, on 25/11/2012 i crossed a traffic light and stopped just over the line at 2am. The camera flashed twice.

I was sent the NIP without a picture.
I returned the NIP with my name on it sometime in december.

I heard nothing until May 2013 when i was sent a court summons.

The summons stated that since the red light had been on for 41 seconds i was not eligible for a standard fixed penalty and i was notified of this in the NIP. I was not notified.

I pleaded not guilty as i had stopped albeit just over the line.

I was sent a new court date in July and when i reached the court, the prosecution asked me to plead guilty as they had a picture showing that i was over the line. The legal advisor also asked me to reconsider my plea and if i did so the court would take it into account and reduce any fine imposed.

I was given the chance to speak, and i told the magistrates that i braked lighter than usual because of the adverse weather conditions(news reports as proof) and no abs. I didnt want the brakes to lock up thereby risking the safety of other road users aswell as myself. I told the magistrates that i have a clean licence and have never been convicted.

The magistrate asked me why i didnt brake earlier to which i replied that there was low visibilty on the night due to the immense rainfall.

I was given 3 points, £125 fine + £85 prosecution costs + £20 victim surcharge.
Thats 3 points and £230 to pay.

Is it just me or does any1 else think its a bit unfair?

Any help would be most appreciated

Thanks


I also told the magistrates that this was the first time i had seen the picture and said how was i to make an informed plea without such evidence in front of me.
Jlc
The offence was complete in passing the stop line at red. It's normal to go to summons when the red has been lit for so long.

The sentence seems within guidelines.

The advice to change your plea from not guilty was good advice though. You'd probably be looking at a fine (and costs) nearer to £1,000.
dawmdt
Technically the offence is complete if you move across the stop line any time after the light changes to Amber.

What reasons did the Mags give for saying you were guilty? They are supposed to give some, I suspect it was something like "if visibility was so bad, road surfaces were slippery and your anti-lock brakes weren't working (or not present at all on that car?) then you should have been driving slowly enough to be able to stop once a hazard became visible" or some such... I mean, supposing there was a pedestrian crossing the road in the front of the lights, passing the line 2-3 feet because visibility was poor would mean you could have hit them? I'm not judging you or the circumstances, I just suspect this was in their reasoning.
Faraz_stani
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:46) *
Technically the offence is complete if you move across the stop line any time after the light changes to Amber.

What reasons did the Mags give for saying you were guilty? They are supposed to give some, I suspect it was something like "if visibility was so bad, road surfaces were slippery and your anti-lock brakes weren't working (or not present at all on that car?) then you should have been driving slowly enough to be able to stop once a hazard became visible" or some such... I mean, supposing there was a pedestrian crossing the road in the front of the lights, passing the line 2-3 feet because visibility was poor would mean you could have hit them? I'm not judging you or the circumstances, I just suspect this was in their reasoning.



The magistrates did not give any reasons, they just proceeded saying that we find you guilty and your licence will be endorsed....etc etc
Logician
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:46) *
What reasons did the Mags give for saying you were guilty?


Probably the fact that he pleaded guilty!
Jlc
QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:54) *
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:46) *
What reasons did the Mags give for saying you were guilty?


Probably the fact that he pleaded guilty!

And by their own account, was.

There's very little recourse now other than to appeal the sentence but it is within guidelines.
dawmdt
QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:54) *
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:46) *
What reasons did the Mags give for saying you were guilty?


Probably the fact that he pleaded guilty!


Ooops, I'll get my coat, missed that rather critical bit icon_redface.gif
mynamegoesinhere
The first rule of driving is to drive at such a speed as to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
The roads were wet, visibility poor, and your car had no ABS. You could not stop before the line, therefore you were driving too fast for the conditions.

Glad you changed your plea; it saved you a lot of money.
Jlc
QUOTE (Faraz_stani @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:38) *
Hi, on 25/11/2012 i crossed a traffic light and stopped just over the line at 2am. The camera flashed twice.

<snip>

I heard nothing until May 2013 when i was sent a court summons.

They had to lay particulars with the court within 6 months of the offence - sounds like they just go in on time?
Logician
QUOTE (Faraz_stani @ Tue, 16 Jul 2013 - 11:38) *
I was given 3 points, £125 fine + £85 prosecution costs + £20 victim surcharge.
Thats 3 points and £230 to pay.

Is it just me or does any1 else think its a bit unfair?


I also told the magistrates that this was the first time i had seen the picture and said how was i to make an informed plea without such evidence in front of me.


I am afraid that you are required to stop before the line, and therefore need to drive so that you are able to do that, having regard to the weather conditions and so on. You crossed the line and after the red light had been on for 41 seconds which in this context is quite a long time and must indicate that you were not driving to the conditions. Sorry, but I think the sentence was not unreasonable.
Pete P
Good choice changing your plea to guilty. It definitely saved you a lot of money.
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