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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
AnetkaK
Today I found on my car a pcn notice from the council. After doing some reading it appears my neighbour across the street went to the trouble of calling the council and waiting for them to turn up as it looks like its a single occupancy drive. In 2 years I have never seen a traffic warden on this street. There are no road markings or parking restrictions. I don't believe I was parked in front of the dropped kerb. I was covering the sloping bit but there was more than enough space for them to get in and out of their driveway. The streets around here fill up at certain times of day because of the Mosque on the next street. It was the only safe place to park outside my house and I left plenty of room. How do I fight this? Should I appeal?







SchoolRunMum
I can't read the PCN as it's sideways and we need to see the small print on the back (all of it please!).

But you are quite right this is not in contravention. If you look at the London Councils' website and download the CEO's Handbook there, and look near the bottom of it, there is a section on cases where a CEO should not issue a PCN and on e clear example is 'overhang' where it's minimal. I don't even think your car was overhanging the flat part of the dropped kerb anyway but I would cite the Handbook and ask for the photos which they contend prove the contravention because your car wasn't adjacent to the part of the kerb where it meets the carriageway.
AnetkaK
Thanks, here are the front and back of the pcn cropped and the right way up. I'll try and find the CEO handbook and give it a read.





Sorry they were a bit small.



hcandersen
IMO, the contravention did not occur as can be seen from the photos. The prohibited area is where the footway and the carriageway meet i.e. the flat bit. If any part of your car is in this area, it must be millimetres.

And while we're on the subject of alignment, the PCN looks flawed to me in that I cannot see the discount penalty to be paid because it's been printed on a pre-printed part of the PCN.

Make your challenge within the 14-day period (last date 28 July) and make sure you send a pic of your PCN with this - it's not whether the council can see the discounted sum in their copy, it's whether it can be seen in yours, so supply them with your pic.
bama
Redbridge are off the reservation IMO.
be prepared for the long haul.
Hippocrates
Make that very long as they are currently experiencing a backlog. Just to play Devil's Advocate, where is the time of contravention stated on that PCN?
jonty4
The observation times are shown, but not time of contravention.

Also, the location doesn't specify a road name .. is that required if the notice was attached to the vehicle ?

bama
yup. good spot.

w(here)tf is OS 130 ?

although its not explicit in the regs
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/schedule/made
its part of the ground the CEO has
e.g parked on XYZ street.
plus when it gets to the NTO how can the owner who may not have been in the car on the day know where the heck its suppose to have happened
hcandersen
I think there's something under "was seen in".
bama
smile.gif
and not flagrante dilecto

unless we see it we don't know.
quandry for the OP as to post that info....
AnetkaK
Next to the "was seen in:" it has the road name and first 3 digits of postcode. As its outside my house I wasn't sure if that was personal identifiable information.

So basically I include my photos highlighting the millimetres of infringement and the illegible ticket and refer to section 8a of the CEO handbook referring to vehicle overhang and the lack of a whole bumper never mind whole wheel in the offending area and demand to see their photos? Is that right?
Incandescent
I certainly cannot see any contravention here based on the posted pics. You do, however, need the fortitude to call their bluff and take it to PATAS if necessary. The sloping part of the kerb is not part of the dropped part. I suspect a lot of these PCNs like this get issued so the CEO can make his/her quota for the day.
AnetkaK
Ok guys. Finally got round to writing my challenge letter. Can you have a quick look at the main text below and tell me if its suitable. I'll include all the pictures and the ticket number, registration etc.

"I'm writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.
On the 15th of July my vehicle was issued with the Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of offence code 27 which is described as “parked in the special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge lowered to meet the level of the carriageway”

In accordance to the Civil Enforcement Officer Handbook, page 54 point A, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. I parked my car on the unmarked street opposite my home carefully making sure to leave plenty of space for access to the driveway there. The Penalty Charge Notice should be issued only if a wheel is wholly in contravention, from the start of the lowered /level kerb and in this case no part of the car blocked the actual lowered/level part of the footpath and there was more than enough space for access to the driveway.

Also parts of the penalty charge notice are illegible.

Please find enclosed evidence to this effect, in the form of pictures taken at the time when I found the Penalty Charge Notice on my window.

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days."
AnetkaK
Update: The council finally uploaded their "evidence" photos. Only one shows the dropped kerb. Barely. Pretty much proves my case. You can see the driveway is clear behind.

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SchoolRunMum
I think the idiot CEO thought that a car is in contravention as it's adjacent to the black tarmac on the pavement even though the kerb isn't dropped there!

This isn't even an overhang situation so I don't think you need to cite the handbook, as it would really only help if it was an 'overhang' IMHO. I would beef up the illegible ticket point as well:

''Also parts of the penalty charge notice are illegible, most notably the amount that is applicable to pay is so badly overtyped it cannot be seen''.
AnetkaK
Another victory for pepipoo.

Yesterday I received a letter that said:

"your query has now been investigated and as a result it is considered that there are sufficient grounds for the above notice and penalty charge to be cancelled. No further action will be taken"

So thanks again. I would not have known about overhangs or CEO handbooks without this forum. I do feel like taking the letter and rubbing it my neighbours face though.
Incandescent
The CEO knew you were not in contravention, but issued the PCN anyway to shut the neighbour up, and cause you hassle.

Remember a PCN is an allegation that a contravention occurred, an invites you to agree and pay up. If you disagree, then their is the appeal process ending up at adjudication.
bama
By heck !
Redbridge pulled out early.
well done - many would just have paid.
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