Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Speeding Under Mitigating Circumstances - Average Speed Cameras
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
shanni10
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2012
Date of the NIP: - 97 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 125 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M60 Motorway clockwise junction 25, Bredbury
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - It is owned by the wife
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I have a trial on the 18th of July at Stockport Magistrates, in Cheshire for a speeding offence which took place on the 27th of October 2012.

The offence was driving on a motorway, M60, travelling at 59mph at a speed exceeding 50 miles an house.

At the time, I pleaded not guilty as my mitigating circumstances are, which is the absolute truth, that I was driving back home from Halifax with my family, day after our Eid celebrations. My daughter of 6 months at the time wasn’t well. As we approached the Ashton exit, my daughter started to cry erratically and screaming hysterically. As I couldn’t stop on the hard shoulder, my wife and I were doing our best to calm her down.

As I was driving, I was keeping attention on the road but not my speed but at the same time trying to console my daughter along with my wife. Unfortunately at that moment the speed reduced to 50mph whereby I carried on at the same speed as previously. I did not see the signs to reduce speed due or did and sub consciously did not register.

The speed camera in question is the average speed camera. The M60 before Stockport East bends towards the right, thus 50mph is advised. There are lane cameras at the top before the bend and after the bend.

Do I have a chance to win this case or not? I want to stick to my principles that speeding is done when it is a conscious decision. However there are occasions when one is speeding but doesn’t know of it. In my case, I am careful, especially when with my family but I have exceptional mitigating circumstances.

PS I do not know the actual dates when I received the NIP as I have only got the Notice of Court hearing


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 14:58:12 +0000
mrh3369
Can't see a defence there I'm afraid.
Jlc
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Tue, 9 Jul 2013 - 15:58) *
Do I have a chance to win this case or not? I want to stick to my principles that speeding is done when it is a conscious decision. However there are occasions when one is speeding but doesn’t know of it. In my case, I am careful, especially when with my family but I have exceptional mitigating circumstances.

Mitigation only applies if you admit to the speeding. At the moment you are saying that you didn't exceed the prescribed limit - it will be costly. Are you aware of the potential costs?
AntonyMMM
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Tue, 9 Jul 2013 - 15:58) *
I want to stick to my principles that speeding is done when it is a conscious decision.


Speeding is done when you exceed the (correctly) posted speed limit , no intent is required. Your principles could be very costly.
localdriver
You can either plead guilty with mitigation, or not guilty with a defence.

Not guilty with mitigation doesn't work.

CuriousOrange
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Tue, 9 Jul 2013 - 15:58) *
PS I do not know the actual dates when I received the NIP as I have only got the Notice of Court hearing
Did you ever identify yourself as the driver?

Are you being charged with speeding, or also/only failure to provide the name of the driver?

shanni10
I received the NIP early in the year. It was first in wifes name as the car is registered to her. We wrote back saying i was driving. I then got the NIP (dont have it in front of me as at work) with my name on it and address.

I however pleaded non guilty and gave my case as above. They came back saying we aint going to quash it and that have to take points. Being a man of principle, I took it upon myself (as one does!) that I wasnt intentionally speeding and it was purely due to mitigating circumstances (trying to calm my baby daughter down) that led me to go above the speed limit.

I wrote these reasons down when pleading not guilty for my first court hearing. The court came back with a different date, which is next week for a trial. I know that I can appeal against the decision at Crown Court but need a good argument.

I came across this site today and thought if you kind people could give some advice. However I ask if you can give me fact as opposed to opinion. As you folks have experience in this, I will gladly take the advice.

If it is decided that I have no chance, how do i plead guilty without having to go court and get hit with a bigger fine?

Thanks

I am just being charged for speeding only

QUOTE (localdriver @ Tue, 9 Jul 2013 - 15:36) *
You can either plead guilty with mitigation, or not guilty with a defence.

Not guilty with mitigation doesn't work.


Why is there no reply to someones post on this??? It took me some time to clock on the quote button!

That is correct. My intention, was actually to plead guilty with mitigation. Plead guilty that yes I was speeding, but had mitigating circumstances. That is my defense. Apologies for not being clear enough
Jlc
You are getting your mitigating circumstances and defences mixed up.

Mitigating circumstances means you admit the offence but there's reasons why it happened and you're asking for leniency.

A defence is required where you dispute the allegation - i.e. you weren't speeding.

If you continue with a not guilty plea then you'll probably be found guilty and will face an income related fine, costs of around £600, surcharge 10% of the fine and 3 points.

Use this calc:



As you rejected the fixed penalty then you have lost the opportunity to dispose of the matter without prosecution. (i.e. £60/3 points)

Changing to a guilty plea will reduce the costs to around £80, the fine will be reduced by a third (surcharge still applies, min £20).
shanni10
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 9 Jul 2013 - 16:32) *
You are getting your mitigating circumstances and defences mixed up.

Mitigating circumstances means you admit the offence but there's reasons why it happened and you're asking for leniency.

A defence is required where you dispute the allegation - i.e. you weren't speeding.

If you continue with a not guilty plea then you'll probably be found guilty and will face an income related fine, costs of around £600, surcharge 10% of the fine and 3 points.

Use this calc:



As you rejected the fixed penalty then you have lost the opportunity to dispose of the matter without prosecution. (i.e. £60/3 points)

Changing to a guilty plea will reduce the costs to around £80, the fine will be reduced by a third (surcharge still applies, min £20).



My sincere apologies, it must be the heat causing the brain cells to go haywire smile.gif

My whole intention was to go with a guilty plea but with mitigating circumstances. I thought I would take that line when I got to caught. Now looking at it, I was wrong. I thought that if I please guilty with mitigating circumstances, I would still get the points and fine thus pointless giving out the reasons.

Do I write to the court now with a guilty plea but continue the mitigating circumstances? I may actually have done this when I got the Notice of Court hearing the first time. I should have kept a copy. I will call the Court tomorrow to confirm if that is what I have done.
sgtdixie
You are essentially admitting to driving without due care and attention. In my experience that will only make things worse.

Had you simply replied naming yourself you would have gone on a SAC (provided you haven't done one in the last 3 years).

A guilty plea will end up with 3 points, an income related fine and victim surcharge. Pretty much nothing you say will get it any better albeit some benches may have sympathy and levy a lower than recommended fine. As I have said some will increase the fine based on an admission you were not paying attention.
Durzel
As said above I would be very careful about saying or implying that your attention wandered off the road. Even with the best of intentions that could be perceived poorly.

Being brutally honest a child crying is not a medical emergency, and the penalty doesn't leave you looking at a totting ban so the courts aren't likely to award no points at all.
Logician
As explained your mitigating circumstances could actually make matters worse. The minimum number of points for speeding is 3 and that is what you would expect anyway for 59 in a 50 limit, so the court cannot go below what it would give you anyway. Your best course of action is probably therefore to write to the court, withdrawing your NG plea and pleading guilty, offering no mitigating circumstances.
The Rookie
If my child had a medical emergency I think I'd be doing a damn site more than 59mph on an mway, limited or not.

It would have been better to get advices as frankly you've made a hash of it so far. Pleading guilty (in person or in writing) at the next hearing is your best bet, and I wouldn't cloud the issue with any 'mitigation' mentioned above for all the reasons given.
shanni10
Just spoke to the court, I incorrectly pleaded not guilty with mitigating circumstances. I have asked to change plea to guilty. I just need to send a fax over confirming the change. Also I just need to add the circumstances and also the problems i may face if i get the points. I have also been told I wont need to attend court as they would look at the plea and circumstances and make a decision.

Thank you everyone who provided such invaluable help with the plea! Absolutely brilliant advice smile.gif
Jlc
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Wed, 10 Jul 2013 - 13:30) *
Also I just need to add the circumstances and also the problems i may face if i get the points.

Be careful what you say as noted above. You'll be on 9 points. If you get 12 points within 3 years then you'll face a totting ban of 6 months - be careful!
shanni10
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 10 Jul 2013 - 14:01) *
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Wed, 10 Jul 2013 - 13:30) *
Also I just need to add the circumstances and also the problems i may face if i get the points.

Be careful what you say as noted above. You'll be on 9 points. If you get 12 points within 3 years then you'll face a totting ban of 6 months - be careful!


Thank you. I have put down that I accept the speeding offense but it was not intentional due to the issue at the time, plus I was driving at a constant speed of 55-60mph before i got to the bend where speed is reduced to 50mph for less than a mile.

I also have mentioned my financial situation (faxed over bank statement) and that I am behind on bills. With extra points and fine, it could cause severe issues financially.
AFCNEAL
Good luck, but with your partner in the car you're unlikely to have a hope in hell...........
Logician
The fine is likely to be set at 50% of your net weekly income, that is earnings less tax and NI, less a 33% discount for pleading guilty, plus 10% surcharge (min £20) plus costs of say £85. If your financial situation is tight you can request time to pay, and pay it off at an agreed rate. Whether you have to tell your insurance company about the points immediately or when you renew the insurance depends on the terms of your policy, so you need to read that. Good luck!
shanni10
Should have just taken the points and paid £60 off when I had the chance!
Jlc
QUOTE (shanni10 @ Fri, 12 Jul 2013 - 12:35) *
Should have just taken the points and paid £60 off when I had the chance!

Indeed, should have come here earlier... We can only advise to minimise the damage.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.