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mrrs
i've never had a PCN before in my life..but a few weeks ago this happened and I wondered if anyone could help me as a single dad with 3 kids.

I was dropping my children off at school around the corner from the school. There is no white lines and no not parking areas or signs.
A traffic warden came upto me and said that the zig zag lines are around the corner and i should be careful parking here. i said to her thats fine but I actually wasn't parking in any contravening area. Next thing she took pics of my car and I asked her what she was doing. She said due to complaints from neighbours she has to take pics of all cars wether breaking a contravention or not, incase a contravention happens to a similiar name or colour car which is reported by the neighbours. I told her I didn't think that was very fair as what if it was a similiar car but not mine and end of the day I was not contravening anything or parked anywhere near any yellow lines neither was there any signs.
She did not issue me a PCN and left simply after that not saying anything. I thought it was very odd so at the time I got out after the enforcement officer left and took my own pics of how my vehicle was parked.. so the next day I pointed out to another enforcement office that i was parked here the other day (as i parked in the same place). I asked the officer if he felt this was a contravention and he said no.
I said why is that? He said your not obstructing anything and this is a okay spot. I told him what the other enforcement agent had said about the same spot and he told me she may give me a PCN through the post but if she does argue it.

I didn't recieve anything for weeks and thought perhaps it was just genuine practise , but today I got a PCN for 'parking in a special enforcement area, more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking place' code 26. Cavendish avenue, Buxton!

I don't agree with this and since have seen numerous cars parking even closer to the school than me (actually on yellow lines and right outside the school ).
Is there any laws that I can argue against this? One of my children is disabled and therefore this is the closest i can park without contravening and it seems more like the Enforcement Officer has given me a PCN because she didn't like the fact I challenged her! This is issued from Park Smarter and it says I drove off before she could give me a PCN when I didnt :s I left because she never issued me a PCN there and then? I have a indepedent witness too, another school parent person who saw this.
Bluedart

First you need to post up (after you have removed personal details) all documents you received in the post.

Then we will go from there.
mrrs
I don't have a scanner to do this but the contravention is as i outlined. I was thinking about saying the below to it..please give me your opinionsDear Park Smarter,

I wish to appeal the above ticket on the following grounds:

- (1) The alleged contravention did not occur.
- (2) The civil enforcement Office was not prevented by some person from fixing the PCN to the vehicle concerned or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- (3) The order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned is invalid

In relation to point 1 and 3, I was only dropping my children off, as one of my children is disabled and requires me to drop him off.
I was not parking in the alleged area but rather loading/unloading for around 2 minutes.
Secondly the marked area in relation to point 1 is not correctly sign posted and the lane signs are wrong. The signs on this road which I provide photographic evidence of below state ‘No Stopping between 8.30am – 9.30am on entrance markings’.
I was not stopped on the entrance markings or any markings, I was stopped on a separate area. Furthermore I was not parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway as shown in the below photographs which I have measured myself and you can see below, further to this I was not obstructing any area.
If you are not allowed to park in any area or road near the school, the correct signs and lane signs should be indicated and adjusted, to which they are not.

I believe that I was allowed to park where I did on Cavendish Avenue, Buxton as I had prior asked another enforcement officer who regulates this area (a male officer) and he told me as long as it was not obstructing the school or parked on he markings as signposted that it was not a contravention.

I believe that because at the time of this incident I verbally challenged this enforcement officer that the contravention did not occur as alleged in the order alleged as per point 3. I clearly indicated to the officer I was only there for 1 minute and not parking, at no point was I informed that she was issuing a PCN so I therefore left within 3 minutes, this was sufficient time for any PCN to be issued or given to me, to which I would have accepted however none was.
The female enforcement officer has maliciously given me this ticket because she did not like me and furthermore the way I raised my point that no contravention had occurred and another enforcement officer verbally agreed this.
I have since witnessed the same enforcement officer who issued me this PCN allow other vehicles to park in this area and had not given any PCN’s therefore I would like to ask why this is, as I have photographic evidence below to prove this.
Further to point 3 I have two independent witnesses, who can verify that point 1 and 3 are correct as stated in this letter and the alleged contravention did not occur and did not occur in the order stated by the PCN too.
I attach two witness statements to the incident below.
I would request to see the photographic evidence which proves that I am guilty of the above offence if Park Smarter which to take this matter further.


Note I don't know if this means anything but above notice they say offence was 8th May but i haven't recieved pcn untll 30th may? Says this was issued 29th may?
Incandescent
I have noticed Buxton has recently introduced much more restrictive and costly parking controls. Obviously the council are short of money and see CPE as a nice little earner for themselves. I was not aware they had contracted-out the enforcement side to "Park Smarter" (whoever they are !), but these contractors tend to operate with absolutely manic zeal to make sure the money rolls in. If they don't make any money for the council, they can lose their contract. You can see what a scam it all is.

From your description of the circumstances you have a very good case for an appeal, but you must brace yourself to accept that a win can only be achieved by going all the way to adjudication, and this means no discount, it's all or nothing. Only rarely do councils give way on informal appeals, and if the contractor is handling them, never.
Bluedart
They need a certificate to call it an approved device.
Did you get any photo's with thePCN?
mrrs
Hi no they gave no PCN's photos no. I will take a photograph of the PCN notice and everything i recieved if this is okay with obv blanked out personal details?
mrrs
Please find attached photos of the pcn..if anyone can suggest if my letter above is good enough that would be good..

http://s16.postimg.org/sfy2tgpbp/pcn1.jpg

http://s13.postimg.org/na2x1cmxj/PCN2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/j58lg6zcx/pcn3.jpg
hcandersen
That's not all of the PCN.
Korting
According to that PCN/Nto there discount period has long gone, its therefore a 'no brainer' in taking it to adjudication.
mrrs
Hi that is all the PCN I believe hcanderson? Only page I missed was where to send the park smarter too. And well am taking is as the issue date is 29th I'm still within the 14 day period in my eyes? Anyone got any opinions on my above rough draft letter?
SchoolRunMum
On MSE I am Coupon-mad and explained you need to post ALL pages of all documents and to leave out the stuff about the zig-zags...I guess you'd already posted here though...

You will get more help when you show all pages. Your PCN is for being over 50cm from the kerb, not zig-zags, and as already pointed out your opening post confuses the matter. Your appeal letter needs to be written to refute the allegation that no part of your car was within 50cm of the kerb (nothing else, no life story!) EXCEPT to explain the sneaky words of the CEO - effectively on whose 'direction' you stayed parked (she pretended she was taking pictures for another reason which is a procedural impropriety and sharp practice).
mrrs
http://s24.postimg.org/ihq779r6d/IMG_00000272.jpg

Heres the missing part of the PCN and I can confirm 100% this is all of it now as i have checked.

Secondly thanks schoolrunmum. The thing is i have a witness an asian man who was taking his daughter to school he heard the EO say it was procedure and he says he didnt think I was 50cm away but obviously he can't confirm it as he didnt hava reuler. I didn't take a ruler or measure it at the time as I didnt know i was getting a ticket and I thought it was all procedure. My mother was with me at the time so I don't know if she'd count as a witness?

If anyone can help that be appreciated. Also is what someone else said that im out of the 14 days now true? Just I think thats unfair if so as i only got the letter on Thursday
welshman10
Have you kept the envelope it was sent in?
Bluedart
QUOTE (mrrs @ Thu, 30 May 2013 - 21:37) *
Hi that is all the PCN I believe hcanderson? Only page I missed was where to send the park smarter too. And well am taking is as the issue date is 29th I'm still within the 14 day period in my eyes? Anyone got any opinions on my above rough draft letter?


They are required to send any evidence at the earliest oportunity, usually with the PCN. They have obviously not done that.

Also, if they started to prepare the PCN and you drove off before they had time to finish it, you will need a copy of the part they had prepared.

My guess is, no record was recorded on an approved device, and there was no start on the preparation of the PCN.

So you will end up somewhere arguing your word against theirs as to what they observed as a contravention.
mrrs
Hi its exactly as i said. I've not lied to you all..the woman just stopped me and said i shudnt park here blah blah i said am loading and not contravening then she took a front pic of my car and a back pic and i said why are you doing that?? and she said oh it's new regulations or rules whatever..and i told her i didn't agree with that then she went off and I did..So with all this talk of no evidence and no record on approved device as i have uploaded everything they sent..what am i best writing here? Can anyone help? Would be appreciated as I have 3 kids and am a single dad I cannot afford to fork out £75. If I had done it i'd just pay £35 but as i haven't dont see why I should?
Incandescent
QUOTE
Can anyone help? Would be appreciated as I have 3 kids and am a single dad I cannot afford to fork out £75. If I had done it i'd just pay £35 but as i haven't dont see why I should?


Like that awful man in those dreadful mortgage ads a few years ago said - "It don't work like that". Parking is de-criminalised and ability to pay has no bearing on whether you have to pay or not. Presumably the philosophy when it was set up in 1991 was is if one can afford to buy and run a car one can pay any parking penalties. There is a legally mandated process to be gone through to establish if you are liable to pay or not as part of Civil Parking Enforcement, now defined under the Traffic Management Act 2004, but it started in 1991.

So: PCN dated and posted 29th May, so you have 14 days from today (31st May) to pay the discount (£35), or you can challenge the PCN within the 14 days and the discount will be reoffered if the challenge is rejected. See this website on appealing where it states this: -
http://www.parksmarter.org.uk/

Once you have a decision from them, you can then decide whether to pay-up the £35 discount amount, or take the matter all the way to adjudication at TPT when the full £70 is in play to pay or not to pay if you win. There are no additional costs only the full PCN amount.

So whilst you are angry and discontented, this doesn't win appeals, only full knowledge of the process and the abuses councils get up to to make the money roll in. Armed with this, most people win at adjudication, (aided by this forum, of course !).

PS - please also post up your own photos of your car. They have walloped you for being more than 50cm from the kerb. Your photos should demonstrate that you were not 50 or more from the kerb and if so you win. There are a lot of CEOs on "incentivised employment contracts" around, who issue dodgy PCNs with certain offences in the list, knowing the owners will be hard-pressed to refute the matter, and this 50cm distance offence is one of those. There was no reason why the PCN could not have been issued at the time, so what they have done is very irregular, but they might claim you were abusive or intimidatory.
mrrs
I see so my draft needs re-writing then? Well i didn't take any photos from the kerb you see i only took front and back pics. I never thought I was going to be accused and never was told it was a PCN so this is so awkward sad.gif Is there any way witness statements should be written?
orford

Something along these lines:

QUOTE
(Page x of x)

XXXX Council: Penalty Charge Notice No: XXXXXX

WITNESS STATEMENT

of XXX (Name)




I, XXX(Name), of XXX(Address) will say as follows:



(Write Statement here)



Statement of Truth

I believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.



Dated this day 2nd June 2013


XXX (Name)





mrrs
Thanks

this is what i've drafted so far for my letter..what do you guys think?? If you guys can advice me any better wording or legal breaches/laws I would sincerely appreciate it. i'll also see if I have any good pics from the one i took at the time


Dear Park Smarter,

I wish to appeal the above ticket on the following grounds:

- (1) The alleged contravention did not occur.
- (2) The civil enforcement Office was not prevented by some person from fixing the PCN to the vehicle concerned or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- (3) The order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned is invalid
- (4) There has been a procedural impropriety carried out by the enforcement officer/enforcement authority.

In relation to point 1 and 3, I was only dropping my children off, as one of my children is disabled and requires me to drop him off quite near to the school due to his disability.
I was not parking in the alleged area but rather dropping my children off for around 2 minutes therefore the alleged contravention did not occur and the order alleged is invalid.
The marked area in relation to point 1 is not correctly sign posted and the lane signs are misleading in conjunction with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Act, as the signs on this road which I provide photographic evidence of below state ‘No Stopping between 8.30am – 9.30am on entrance markings’.
I was not stopped on the entrance markings or any markings, I was stopped on a separate area. Furthermore I was not parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, which I have measured myself to verify and I can confirm I was 48cm away from the edge of the carriageway, further to this I was not obstructing any area.
If you are not allowed to park/load/drop off in any area or road near the school, the correct signs and lane signs should be indicated and adjusted, to make sure the public fairly is aware of this, which they are not at the time of issue of this PCN in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004.

I believe that I was allowed to drop off where I did on Cavendish Avenue, Buxton as I had prior asked another enforcement officer who regulates this area (a male officer) and he told me as long as it was not obstructing the school or parked on the markings as signposted that it was not a contravention and he had seen the car in the same area as this same enforcement officer and not issued a PCN.


At the time of this incident I clearly indicated to the officer I was only there for 2 minutes and not parking, at no point was I informed that she was issuing a PCN so I therefore left within 3 minutes. I did see the officer take photographs of just the front and back of my vehicle and questioned this, however I was told this was ‘procedure’ incase a contravention incident happened in future which matched my cars description so that the authorities could fairly investigate as local residents to the school had complained.

I was never given a PCN at the time, however there was sufficient time for any PCN to be issued or given to me, to which I would have accepted and challenged.
However no PCN was issued, therefore the enforcement agent in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004 has lied to give me a PCN, this is improper practice and as per point 4 is not the correct procedure that should be done to issue PCNs.
If I was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway I would like to know the exact measurement found that the enforcement officer measured when issuing the PCN that shows that my vehicle did this contravention.

I have strong evidence and reason to believe that the female enforcement officer has maliciously given me this ticket because she did not like me and furthermore the way I raised my point that no contravention had occurred and another enforcement officer verbally agreed this.
I have since witnessed the same enforcement officer who issued me this PCN allow other vehicles to park in this area and had not given any PCN’s therefore I would like to ask why this is, as I have photographic evidence below to prove this.

Further to point 3 I have two witnesses, who can verify that point 1,3 and 4 are correct as stated in this letter and the alleged contravention did not occur and did not occur in the order stated by the PCN too.
I attach the independent witness statement to this letter.
I would request to see the photographic evidence which proves that I am guilty of the above offence if Park Smarter which to take this matter further.
mrrs
This is all my witness has said :


On May 8th I was taking my daughter- ****** to Buxton School to view the school so that I could decide if she likes it. On arriving on Cavendish Road I heard a lot of shouting and noise coming from the right of me. I looked and saw a female enforcement officer shouting at two women and some kids. I thought this was very strange and the incident stuck out too me as I had never seen an enforcement officer act like this before. As I was passing I saw the enforcement officer take pictures of the front and back of the vehicle. I was slightly puzzled to why as I didn’t see any thing this driver was doing wrong. I stopped to watch for a second and heard the driver say ‘why are you taking photographs of my car? I haven’t done anything wrong’ I heard the enforcement officer say ‘it’s just procedure incase any contravention happens which matches your vehicle I am not giving you a PCN don’t worry’.
I then continued on with my daughter as I did not want to be late with our viewing and did not hear anything else or see anything else as I was only walking by. When I returned to my vehicle 15 minutes later the car had gone and officer.
SchoolRunMum
You need to get rid of the stuff about markings as this isn't a PCN based on markings/signs/zigzags at all.

And you've already said you measured it and it was 48 cm (is that true? If not remove it). So you don't need the first bit of this sentence only the second bit in bold:

''If I was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway I would like to know the exact measurement found that the enforcement officer measured when issuing the PCN that shows that my vehicle did this contravention.''

And you can't put this bit in italics! Doesn't help your case and doesn't give you the moral high ground over the CEO which you should maintain because she lied:

''I have strong evidence and reason to believe that the female enforcement officer has maliciously given me this ticket because she did not like me''
EDW
The ground for a postal pcn is this:


(iii) that it is being so served because a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9.

do not confuse it with this:


(ii) that it is being so served, because a civil enforcement officer attempted to serve a penalty charge notice by affixing it to the vehicle or giving it to the person in charge of the vehicle but was prevented from doing so by some person; or



They have failed to mention 'in accordance with regulation 9'.


Case Reference: 2120588587
Appellant: Mr Muhammad Ohidur Rahman
Authority: Transport for London
VRM: SB06EJC
PCN: GF60553381
Contravention Date: 27 Sep 2012
Contravention Time: 12:34
Contravention Location: Whitechapel Road
Penalty Amount: £130.00
Contravention: stopped where prohibited
Decision Date: 19 Dec 2012
Adjudicator: Alastair McFarlane
Appeal Decision: Allowed
Direction: cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons:
The Enforcement Authority rely upon the evidence of their Civil Enforcement Officer. He has noted all the relevant details of the vehicle and that the vehicle was observed for 5 minutes. His notes states that he "verbally informed [the driver that] PCN issued". The Enforcement Authority assert in their Case Summary that the "driver prevented the parking attendant serving the PCN"" and "[h]ad the vehicle remained the PCN would have been affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver..." They have sought to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post.

Under regulation 10(1)(b) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer attempted to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by either fixing it to the vehicle or handing it to person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle but was "prevented from doing so by some person".

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

The Penalty Charge Notice itself states that it was served by post because the driver had begun to prepare it. This is a different basis from what the case summary alleges and is not consistent with the officer's notes. Further, "driving away" cannot be the reason why the officer was "prevented" from issuing it under Reg 10(1)b).

Having carefully considered all the evidence, I am not persuaded that the Enforcement Authority have established that it may avail itself of the power to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post.

As I am not satisfied that a Penalty Charge Notice has been lawfully served in this case, I must allow this appeal.
Hippocrates
Is that all the PCN as it is missing a regulation if it is?
mrrs
I see..Schoolrunmum your point and perhaps I am waffling. Thank you for pointing that out me and looking back I should perhaps edit the letter further. Thank you for this valid suggestion..I'm sorry never written one of these so I'm slightly confused you see. I only use Pepipoo as this is my brothers account and he told me you maybe able to help.

I'd like to explain, obviously at the time I didn't get told i was getting a PCN..So I never thought to measure the kerb..or take every angle pics. I just took front and back and distance shots..none of which I think maybe really relevant? I didn't take pics of the kerb at the time as I said I was told it was not a PCN so I didn't have any knowledge I would ever get a PCN as I've said originally i got told the enforcement officer was doing this purely for procedure as I originally stated..I only have found it was 48cm because I went back and parked the car exactly the same and I know it was parked the same as the road has alot of bumps and potholes so I noticed that last time when I got out and spoke to the EO exactly where my wheel ended and was on the road..so I went back with a measuring tape to do so and also take photos of the signs. Should I take this out then perhaps..?

EDW thank you for this help. I sincerely appreciate it as a single dad.

Also 10% all the PCN has been uploaded. I am sure and have checked.
EDW
anyway make your reps. asap, they will most likely refuse to cancel, then you have to decide to pay the 50% or gamble
at formal appeal.

If you go to formal appeal you should go in person and hope the Adjudicator believes you.

There may be a way of winning due to faulty wording on the pcn.

Try to get better photos of the pcn showing ALL the wording.

I see tax disc 'not taken'. Seems he was in a hurry.
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE (mrrs @ Sat, 1 Jun 2013 - 15:38) *
I see..Schoolrunmum your point and perhaps I am waffling. Thank you for pointing that out me and looking back I should perhaps edit the letter further. Thank you for this valid suggestion..I'm sorry never written one of these so I'm slightly confused you see. I only use Pepipoo as this is my brothers account and he told me you maybe able to help.

I'd like to explain, obviously at the time I didn't get told i was getting a PCN..So I never thought to measure the kerb..or take every angle pics. I just took front and back and distance shots..none of which I think maybe really relevant? I didn't take pics of the kerb at the time as I said I was told it was not a PCN so I didn't have any knowledge I would ever get a PCN as I've said originally i got told the enforcement officer was doing this purely for procedure as I originally stated..I only have found it was 48cm because I went back and parked the car exactly the same and I know it was parked the same as the road has alot of bumps and potholes so I noticed that last time when I got out and spoke to the EO exactly where my wheel ended and was on the road..so I went back with a measuring tape to do so and also take photos of the signs. Should I take this out then perhaps..?

EDW thank you for this help. I sincerely appreciate it as a single dad.

Also 10% all the PCN has been uploaded. I am sure and have checked.





You can't use evidence that it was 48cm when you parked the car another time on another occasion. So take that out but state clearly that the contravention did not occur, not all of your vehicle was more than 50cm from the kerb and because the CEO was pretending to take photos for another reason she never measured the distance and so the Council have no evidence at all.

Remove all reference to those zig zags, signs and lines as you simply don't need that. They are saying that 'no part of your vehicle' was within 50cm of the kerb and you simply need to say 'no you are wrong and it was never measured so you have no evidence' basically. Include your accusation about the CEO as it is valid that she committed a procedural impropriety by lying to you - but delete anything like 'because she didn't like me' which sounds like a child's argument in the school playground where I work!
mrrs
Thanks schoolrunmum I understand. I'll repost a draft then tomoz. EDW what defence can I make for the wrong wording on the docs? That is all the PCN which I have uploaded there is nothing else
mrrs
Dear Park Smarter,

I wish to appeal the above ticket on the following grounds:

- (1) The alleged contravention did not occur.
- (2) The civil enforcement Office was not prevented by some person from fixing the PCN to the vehicle concerned or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- (3) The order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned is invalid
- (4) There has been a procedural impropriety carried out by the enforcement officer/enforcement authority.

In relation to point 1 and 3, I was only dropping my children off, as one of my children is disabled and requires me to drop him off quite near to the school due to his disability.
I was not parking in the alleged area but rather dropping my children off for around 2 minutes therefore the alleged contravention did not occur and the order alleged is invalid.
The marked area in relation to point 1 is not correctly sign posted and the lane signs are misleading in conjunction with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Act, as the signs on this road which I provide photographic evidence of below state ‘No Stopping between 8.30am – 9.30am on entrance markings’.
I was not stopped on the entrance markings or any markings, I was stopped on a separate area. Furthermore I was not parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, which I have an independent witness to verify.
If you are not allowed to park/load/drop off in any area or road near the school, the correct signs and lane signs should be indicated and adjusted, to make sure the public fairly is aware of this, which they are not at the time of issue of this PCN in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004.

I believe that I was allowed to park where I did on Cavendish Avenue, Buxton as I had prior asked another enforcement officer who regulates this area (a male officer) when my car had been there prior to this PCN and he had told me it was allowed as no contravention was happening.

At the time of this incident I clearly indicated to the officer I was only there for 2 minutes and not parking, at no point was I informed that she was issuing a PCN so I therefore left when the enforcement officer left within 3 minutes. I did see the officer take photographs of just the front and back of my vehicle and questioned this, I was told by the enforcement officer this was ‘procedure’ incase a contravention incident happened in future which matched my cars description so that the authorities could fairly investigate as local residents to the school had complained thus why enforcement officers were patrolling the school area. As I had done nothing wrong I allowed this.

I was never given a PCN at the time or saw any device out or had any indication of a PCN, however there was sufficient time for any PCN to be issued or given to me, to which I would have accepted.
However no PCN was issued, therefore the enforcement agent in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004 has acted dishonestly to give me a PCN, this is improper practice and as per point 4 is not the correct procedure that should be done to issue PCNs.

I also believe as per point 4 that there has been a procedural impropriety carried out by the enforcement officer and authority as in line with the grounds to give a postal PCN it is stated:
(iii) that it is being so served because a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9.

Under regulation 10(1)(b) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer attempted to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by either fixing it to the vehicle or handing it to person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle but was "prevented from doing so by some person".

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

The Penalty Charge Notice itself states that it was served by post because the officer had begun to prepare it. This is a different basis from what the case summary alleges and is not consistent with the enforcement officer's notes. Further, "driving away" cannot be the reason why the officer was "prevented" from issuing it under Reg 10(1)b).

Having carefully considered all the evidence, I am not persuaded that the Enforcement Authority have established that it could assert itself of the power to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post because the enforcement officer never informed me that there was any PCN to be issued as outlined above and by an independent witness.

As I am not satisfied that a Penalty Charge Notice has been lawfully served in this case, I must allow this appeal.

If I was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway I would like to know the exact measurement found that the enforcement officer measured when issuing the PCN that shows that my vehicle did this contravention as again at the time of incident I never saw the officer measure my car from the kerb and there is further evidence to contradict this as an independent witness also states they only saw photographs being taken as there was no preparation of a PCN by the officer.

I have strong evidence and reason to believe that the female enforcement officer has maliciously given me this ticket because I raised my point that no contravention had occurred and another enforcement officer verbally agreed this prior to this PCN.
I have since witnessed the same enforcement officer who issued me this PCN allow other vehicles to park in this area and had not given any PCN’s therefore I would like to ask why this is, as I have photographic evidence below of other vehicles parked in this area to prove this.

Further to point 3 I have two witnesses, who can verify that point 1,3 and 4 are correct as stated in this letter and the alleged contravention did not occur and did not occur in the order stated by the PCN too.
I attach the independent witness statement to this letter.
I would request to see the photographic evidence which proves that I am guilty of the above offence if Park Smarter which to take this matter further.

hi guys thats my latest draft..what do you think?

You know as the PCN was also done on 8th may.but only issued 29th may? Could i not say that this is improper practise and the reason it took so long is because the enforcement officer never really told me they were giving a PCN and have prepared it after i left? Just if i remember right the eo only took pics of my reg from the front and back imo
welshman10
"As I am not satisfied that a Penalty Charge Notice has been lawfully served in this case, I must allow this appeal."

Are you the adjudicator?!!
mrrs
thanks welshman valid point ill cut that bit out
Hippocrates
You are not wishing to appeal. You are making formal representations. You only appeal to a tribunal. Please answer my question above re the PCN.
mrrs
Hi i did reply hippocrates..it is all of the PCN yes..everything ive uploaded


http://s16.postimg.org/sfy2tgpbp/pcn1.jpg

http://s13.postimg.org/na2x1cmxj/PCN2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/j58lg6zcx/pcn3.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ihq779r6d/IMG_00000272.jpg

all of the PCN
Hippocrates
It does contain the regulation I hoped may be missing. Never mind. Go with what you have.
mrrs
Oh right okay. So you think that draft is okay hippocrates? Thanks
Bluedart

The Secretary of State suggests that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention.
Now I wonder why they have ignored the suggestion made by the SofS?
mrrs
Bluedart my thoughts exactly..but how could i argue this or put this across? I'm not very good with letter writing? Also do you have a link to that it may help me. Thank you if you do and for anyone else for your help
SchoolRunMum
QUOTE (mrrs @ Sun, 2 Jun 2013 - 14:14) *
Bluedart my thoughts exactly..but how could i argue this or put this across? I'm not very good with letter writing? Also do you have a link to that it may help me. Thank you if you do and for anyone else for your help





It's in the Statutory Guidance here so just say so and quote the appropriate sentence (when you find it!).

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/tma-...atutoryguid.pdf


Also is all this bit a quote from a previous key case? Must be because at first you quoted the end bit 'I must allow this appeal'? If so, then all you need to do is put it in speech marks and also make it clear that you are quoting from a similar compelling case and state the case number as well (which I don't know of course...):

''Under regulation 10(1)(b) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer attempted to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by either fixing it to the vehicle or handing it to person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle but was "prevented from doing so by some person".

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

The Penalty Charge Notice itself states that it was served by post because the officer had begun to prepare it. This is a different basis from what the case summary alleges and is not consistent with the enforcement officer's notes. Further, "driving away" cannot be the reason why the officer was "prevented" from issuing it under Reg 10(1)b).

Having carefully considered all the evidence, I am not persuaded that the Enforcement Authority have established that it could assert itself of the power to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post because the enforcement officer never informed me that there was any PCN to be issued as outlined above and by an independent witness.

As I am not satisfied that a Penalty Charge Notice has been lawfully served in this case, I must allow this appeal
.''
Bluedart

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

Now this is what I know about 'begun to prepare' and what happens afterwards.

I am given to understand that once there has been any input on those handheld computers, they can cancel the pcn but they cannot wipe out what they have already started.

You will need to get hold of the 'begun to prepare' part of the reg 9 pcn. They will use it as evidence if it is in their favor. Date and time stamps are critical.

If there is a still image with a date and time stamp and it differs from the date and time stamp on the handheld, then you may well have a case for them to answer.

My guess is though, they will not provide you with any of that, they will take you to the wire and withdraw at the last possible moment.

It's a game and you have to play the game.

Once anything is written on a police computer, it is still there, they cannot back track they mark it as an error.
EDW
Prevention of service by ‘drive away’
8.69 A PCN may also be served by post if the CEO had begun to issue it – i.e. has
completed his/her observations and had either started to write the PCN or put
the data into the HHC and would, in other circumstances, have to cancel the
PCN – but the vehicle was driven away before the CEO had time to finish or
serve the PCN.
mrrs
Okay I am lost now EDW and everyone..do i have a defence under legal law such as 8.69/9 and sosn or not? :s if so what should i say
hcandersen
Instead of compiling reps as if you were making a submission to the Supreme Court, you should concentrate on the issues, and put the first-order ones where they should be - at the front.

These are:
Did the contravention occur and was the authority empowered to serve the PCN?

The contravention did not occur as no part of my vehicle was not within 50cm of the edge of the carriageway. The burden is on the authority to prove, not you to disprove: as we know, proving a negative can be onerous, so the law doesn't require this. So, where's the authority's evidence? According to you, they don't have photos which show the vehicle in contravention, well tango sierra: since when did you become a partner in their misfortune? I cannot imagine any adjudicator (or sensible council - or is this an oxymoron?) not allowing an appeal in these circumstances. You have pics, they don't - so produce them. Don't tell us what they don't contain, just post them. Draw a diagram estimating where you were, and how you got there, and include this. Your evidence in part is that your recollection was ABC and your recollection is as valid as the CEO's.

In the event that the council reject your reps on these grounds, you require them to provide you with details of how CEOs are instructed to establish this contravention.

Was the authority empowered to serve the PCN?
Only if, having determined that the contravention had occurred, the CEO was prevented from serving the PCN in one of the ways specified in the regs. And I will bet you a £ to a pinch of RHS that the council's procedures are that in the case of this contravention pics should be taken before the PCN is served. And they don't have pics, so the CEO had not begun to prepare the PCN, at best they were in the process of determining whether a contravention had occurred - and that doesn't empower the authority to serve a postal PCN.


Bluedart
QUOTE (mrrs @ Sun, 2 Jun 2013 - 17:30) *
Okay I am lost now EDW and everyone..do i have a defence under legal law such as 8.69/9 and sosn or not? :s if so what should i say


Why are you lost?
What you need to do is ask the authority, whoever that maybe, for a copy of the 'Begun to prepared ' regulation 9 PCN, the still images that they have taken and a copy of the notes from the CEO's notebook. Anything that you get should be readable.

Like I said, chances are they haven't got them.

Any evidence that they hold, should be released at the earliest opportunity and usually when they serve the reg 10 PCN.
mrrs
I understand that bluedart but I'm confused to what the regulation means and how it is relevant..the same with the statute of secretary or whatever it is. Hcanderson-- that makes sense thanks. That's helped me alot. I will include my pictures of course and witness statement. I plan on posting this tomorrow..what I need help with is how to write this without waffling on if you get me.
Incandescent
Lets get back to basics. Here is what your first post said: -

QUOTE
I was dropping my children off at school around the corner from the school. There is no white lines and no not parking areas or signs.
A traffic warden came up to me and said that the zig zag lines are around the corner and i should be careful parking here. i said to her thats fine but I actually wasn't parking in any contravening area. Next thing she took pics of my car and I asked her what she was doing. She said due to complaints from neighbours she has to take pics of all cars whether breaking a contravention or not, in case a contravention happens to a similiar name or colour car which is reported by the neighbours. I told her I didn't think that was very fair as what if it was a similiar car but not mine and end of the day I was not contravening anything or parked anywhere near any yellow lines neither was there any signs.
She did not issue me a PCN and left simply after that not saying anything. I thought it was very odd so at the time I got out after the enforcement officer left and took my own pics of how my vehicle was parked.. so the next day I pointed out to another enforcement office that i was parked here the other day (as i parked in the same place). I asked the officer if he felt this was a contravention and he said no.
I said why is that? He said your not obstructing anything and this is a okay spot. I told him what the other enforcement agent had said about the same spot and he told me she may give me a PCN through the post but if she does argue it.


This is your story and it needs to be part of your appeal to the council as the "scene-setting" part to demonstrate that you have been wronged, even the victim of sharp, almost illegal, practice. Having set the scene, you then state that as no PCN was handed to you, fixed to the car, or even in course of preparation, when the CEO was present, the sending of a PCN through the post is illegal, and you request that it be cancelled. They then have to explain why it was legal to issue it by post if they reject your appeal. This is essentially where they can shoot themselves in the foot and give you a win at adjudication.

Your appeal then needs a second section, in which you state that no offence occurred as described in the PCN. At no time whilst your car was parked was any part of the it further away from the kerb than 50cm. The CEO was present until you drove off, and never mentioned anything about kerb distance whilst you were there, or made measurements of any kind. You further state that by issuing a postal PCN for this offence without providing any photographic proof is extremely irregular as it makes it virtually impossible for the motorist to take measurements on receipt of the PCN as the PCN is received days later.

mrrs
Okay here's my latest draft letter..LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK PLEASE smile.gif


Dear Park Smarter,

I wish to appeal the above ticket on the following grounds:

- (1) The alleged contravention did not occur.
- (2) The civil enforcement Office was not prevented by some person from fixing the PCN to the vehicle concerned or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- (3) The order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned is invalid
- (4) There has been a procedural impropriety carried out by the enforcement officer/enforcement authority.

In relation to this PCN I was dropping my children off at school, one of which is disabled and I can provide evidence to verify this if needed, on Cavendish Road. There is no white lines and no parking areas or signs that state dropping off is not allowed.
A traffic warden came up to me as I was letting my children out and said that the zig zag lines are a short distance away to my car and I should be careful parking here. I said to her that’s fine but I actually wasn't parking in any contravening area neither was any contravention occurring and that I will only be a few minutes as my I’m dropping off my children. She then took pictures of my car from the front and back and I asked her what she was doing.
I was told by the enforcement officer this was ‘procedure’ incase a contravention incident happened in future which matched my cars description so that the authorities could fairly investigate as local residents to the school had complained thus why enforcement officers were patrolling the school area.
I told her I didn't think that was very fair as if it was a similar car with the same colour and make but not my vehicle I could be falsely accused, she made no comment in response to this. However as I was not guilty of anything I allowed her to do this, believing this was procedure.
She did not issue me a PCN and left simply after that not saying anything further.
At the time of this incident I clearly indicated to the officer I was only there for 2 minutes and not parking.
At no point was I informed that she was issuing a PCN, neither did she make any notes or get out any device so I therefore left after when the enforcement officer left within 3 minutes, which is verified by a independent witness.

Therefore the enforcement agent in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004 has acted dishonestly to give me a PCN, this is improper practice and as per point 4 is not the correct procedure that should be done to issue PCNs.

I also believe as per point 4 that there has been a procedural impropriety carried out in another element by the enforcement officer and authority as in line with the grounds to give a postal PCN it is stated:
(iii) that it is being so served because a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9.

I now refer to Case Reference: 2120588587
Appellant: Mr Muhammad Ohidur Rahman

In this case the Enforcement Authority relied upon the evidence of their Civil Enforcement Officer. He had noted all the relevant details of the vehicle and that the vehicle was observed for 5 minutes. His notes stated that he "verbally informed [the driver that] a PCN was issued". The Enforcement Authority assert in their Case Summary that the "driver prevented the parking attendant serving the PCN"" and "had the vehicle remained the PCN would have been affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver..." They sought to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post however this was later found to be a breach of regulations.

Under regulation 10(1)(b) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer attempted to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by either fixing it to the vehicle or handing it to person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle but was "prevented from doing so by some person".

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

The Penalty Charge Notice itself states that it was served by post because the driver(myself) drove away before there was a chance to give the PCN. This is a different basis from what an independent witness saw and what really happened. This is not consistent with the enforcement officer's actions and does not make sense. Furthermore, "driving away" cannot be the reason why the officer was "prevented" from issuing it under Regulation 10(1B).
Therefore I believe this ticket is illegal and has no grounds to be served via post to me.

If I was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway I would like to know the exact measurement found that the enforcement officer measured when issuing the PCN that shows that my vehicle did this contravention as again at the time of incident this contradicts the enforcement officer’s story, as if I drove away before she gave a PCN, then how did she get an accurate measurement to verify a contravention happened?
The officer never measured my car from the kerb and again the independent witnesses statement verifies this.

I also believe the marked area in relation to point 1 is not correctly sign posted and the lane signs are misleading in conjunction with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Act, as the signs on this road which I provide photographic evidence of below state ‘No Stopping between 8.30am – 9.30am on entrance markings’.
I was not stopped on the entrance markings, I was stopped on a separate area. Furthermore I was not parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, which I have an independent witness to verify.
If you are not allowed to park/load/drop off in any area or road near the school, the correct signs and lane signs should be indicated and adjusted, to make sure the public fairly is aware of this, which they are not at the time of issue of this PCN in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004.

I believe that I was allowed to park where I did on Cavendish Avenue, Buxton as I after this incident asked another enforcement officer who regulates this area (a male officer) when my car had been there prior to this PCN and he had told me it was allowed as no contravention was happening.

I believe the above is strong evidence and reason to believe that the female enforcement officer has maliciously given me this ticket because I raised my point that no contravention had occurred and another enforcement officer verbally agreed to this.
I have since witnessed the same enforcement officer who issued me this PCN allow other vehicles to park in this area and had not given any PCN’s therefore I would like to ask why this is, as I have photographic evidence below of other vehicles parked in this area to prove this.

Further to point 3 I have two witnesses, who can verify that point 1,3 and 4 are correct as stated in this letter and the alleged contravention did not occur and did not occur in the order stated by the PCN too.
I attach the independent witness statement to this letter.

I would request to see the photographic evidence which oddly has not been sent to me with this PCN notice which proves that I am guilty of the above offence if Park Smarter which to take this matter further.


I wanted to also include what someone said before in this thread that the secretary of state in the traffic management act states that pcn's should be served within 14 days..this one wasn't but I couldn't find where it actually said that
Incandescent
QUOTE
Dear Park Smarter,

I wish to appeal the above ticket on the following grounds:

- (1) The alleged contravention did not occur.
- (2) The civil enforcement Office was not prevented by any person from fixing the PCN to the vehicle concerned or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- (3) The order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned is invalid
- (4) There has been a procedural impropriety carried out by the enforcement officer/enforcement authority.

In relation to this PCN I was dropping my children off at school, one of whom is disabled, (and I can provide evidence to verify this if needed), on Cavendish Road. There are no white lines and no parking areas or signs that state dropping off is not allowed.
A traffic warden came up to me as I was letting my children out of the car and said that the zig-zag lines are a short distance away from my car and I should be careful parking here. I said to her that’s fine. but I actually wasn't parking in any contravening area neither was any contravention occurring and that I will only be a few minutes as I’m dropping off my children. She then took pictures of my car from the front and back and I asked her what she was doing.

I was told by the enforcement officer this was ‘procedure’ in case a contravention incident happened in future which matched my cars description so that the authorities could fairly investigate as local residents to the school had complained thus why enforcement officers were patrolling the school area.

I told her I didn't think that was very fair as if it was a similar car with the same colour and make but not my vehicle I could be falsely accused, she made no comment in response to this. However as I was not guilty of anything I allowed her to do this, believing this was procedure.

She did not issue me a PCN and left simply after that not saying anything further. At the time of this incident I clearly indicated to the officer I was only there for 2 minutes and not parking. At no point was I informed that she was issuing a PCN, neither did she make any notes or get out any hand-held device for producing a printed PCN, so I therefore left about 3 minutes after the enforcement officer had left , which is verified by a independent witness.

Therefore the enforcement agent, contrary to the Traffic Management Act 2004, and the Statutory Guidance, has acted dishonestly to give me a postal PCN. this is improper practice and as per point 4 is not the correct procedure that should be done to issue PCNs.

I also believe as per point 4 that there has been a procedural impropriety the enforcement officer and authority as in line with the allowable grounds to issue a postal PCN it is stated:

"(iii) that it is being so served because a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9."

I now refer to Case Reference: 2120588587 at PATAS (Appellant: Mr Muhammad Ohidur Rahman)

In this case the Enforcement Authority relied upon the evidence of their Civil Enforcement Officer. He had noted all the relevant details of the vehicle and that the vehicle was observed for 5 minutes. His notes stated that he "verbally informed [the driver that] a PCN was issued". The Enforcement Authority assert in their Case Summary that the "driver prevented the parking attendant serving the PCN"" and "had the vehicle remained the PCN would have been affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver..." They sought to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by post however this was later found to be a breach of regulations.

Under regulation 10(1)(b) of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer attempted to serve the Penalty Charge Notice by either fixing it to the vehicle or handing it to person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle but was "prevented from doing so by some person".

Under regulation 10(1)© of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, an Enforcement Authority may serve a Penalty Charge Notice by post where a Civil Enforcement Officer has "begun to prepare" a Penalty Charge Notice for service either to the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle, but the vehicle was driven away before the Civil Enforcement Officer had finished preparing it or had so served it.

The Penalty Charge Notice itself states that it was served by post because the driver(myself) drove away before there was a chance to give the PCN. This is a different version of events from what an independent witness saw and what really happened. This is not consistent with the enforcement officer's actions and does not make sense. Furthermore, "driving away" cannot be the reason why the officer was "prevented" from issuing it under Regulation 10(1B).
Therefore I believe this ticket is illegal and has no grounds to be served via post to me.

The offence as stated on the PCN is for parking in a Special Enforcement Area more than 50 cm from the edge of the carriageway. I refute this, and would point out that if I was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, I would like to know the exact measurement that the enforcement officer measured when issuing the PCN that shows that my vehicle did this contravention. Again, at the time of the incident this contradicts the enforcement officer’s story, as if I drove away before she gave a PCN, then how did she get an accurate measurement to verify a contravention happened? During the whole time I was parked, the officer never measured my car from the kerb, and again the independent witnesses statement verifies this.

The plain fact is that I was not parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway.
If you are not allowed to park/load/drop off in any area or road near the school, the correct signs and lane signs should be indicated and adjusted, to make sure the public fairly is aware of this, which they are not at the time of issue of this PCN in line with the Traffic Management Act 2004.

I believe that I was allowed to park where I did on Cavendish Avenue, Buxton as after this incident I asked another enforcement officer who regulates this area (a male officer) when my car had been there prior to this PCN and he had told me it was allowed as no contravention was happening.

I believe the above is strong evidence and reason to believe that the female enforcement officer has acted maliciously in giving me this ticket because I raised my point that no contravention had occurred and another enforcement officer verbally agreed to this.
I have since witnessed the same enforcement officer who issued me this PCN allow other vehicles to park in this area and had not given any PCN’s therefore I would like to ask why this is, as I have photographic evidence below of other vehicles parked in this area to prove this.

Further to point 3 I have two witnesses, who can verify that point 1,3 and 4 are correct as stated in this letter and the alleged contravention did not occur and did not occur in the order stated by the PCN too.
I attach the independent witness statement to this letter.

I would request to see the photographic evidence which oddly has not been sent to me with this PCN notice which proves that I am guilty of the above offence if Park Smarter which to take this matter further.


I have made a few minor corrections.
mrrs
thank you!!
welshman10
Last line says "which to", think you mean "wish to"?

Grammar police wink.gif
mrrs
hahaha thanks for pointing that out welshman
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