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Western Promise
My partner has received an NIP today re speeding (38 in a 30) two weekends ago.

I've not seen it yet, as I'm at work, but think this was probably me driving at the time. What is the procedure if you are not 100% sure who was driving? Does the penalty default to the registered keeper?
CuriousOrange
If someone gets an S172 requirement (in this case your partner) and doesn't name the driver they can face an S172 charge, which if found guilty results in six points and an MS90 code that does horrible things to insurance by all accounts.

So if 'not 100%' sure means something like you're '95% sure' it was you then it's probably best for her to name you and for you to name yourself.

StuartBu
And remember there is a limited time for her to return the form .
Jlc
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 13:44) *
And remember there is a limited time for her to return the form .

...and you'll get your own form that equally needs returning.

That speed is eligible for an awareness course to avoid the point if that helps. (Assuming not in Scotland)
Western Promise
Thanks.

The situation was that we took the kids for a riding lesson, but found the place only took cash. We didn't have enough on us, so she drove to the nearest cash point to get some. She found she'd be overdrawn if she took the cash out, so she returned, I drove back and withdrew the cash from my account.

So we both did the same journey a few minutes apart.

I reckon it was probably me. I'm likelier to drive fast, in this case in a 30 that 50 yards back was a 60, but I have no claims or convictions. She on the other hand has had two own-fault prangs in 3 years, and we were charged over £800 to renew her insurance last month.

The concern I have is that if I say it was me when it only probably was, that could look like I'm taking the points onto my clean licence to avoid her insurance position getting even worse. This wouldn't be the case but in the wake of Huhne / Pryce it did occur to me as a risk!

I have looked at my statements etc but they only give the date of the cash withdrawal, not the time.
StuartBu
QUOTE (Western Promise @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 13:59) *
Thanks.

The situation was that we took the kids for a riding lesson, but found the place only took cash. We didn't have enough on us, so she drove to the nearest cash point to get some. She found she'd be overdrawn if she took the cash out, so she returned, I drove back and withdrew the cash from my account.

So we both did the same journey a few minutes apart.

I reckon it was probably me. I'm likelier to drive fast, in this case in a 30 that 50 yards back was a 60, but I have no claims or convictions. She on the other hand has had two own-fault prangs in 3 years, and we were charged over £800 to renew her insurance last month.

The concern I have is that if I say it was me when it only probably was, that could look like I'm taking the points onto my clean licence to avoid her insurance position getting even worse. This wouldn't be the case but in the wake of Huhne / Pryce it did occur to me as a risk!

I have looked at my statements etc but they only give the date of the cash withdrawal, not the time.


'Phone your bank ...their system MIGHT have the time even if the statement doesn't show it ..I'm sure if you get a receipt from cash machines the time is shown. Your partner could do the same checks with her bank to try and confirm her time too.
Jlc
QUOTE (Western Promise @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 13:59) *
I reckon it was probably me. I'm likelier to drive fast, in this case in a 30 that 50 yards back was a 60, but I have no claims or convictions. She on the other hand has had two own-fault prangs in 3 years, and we were charged over £800 to renew her insurance last month.

Be very careful - the current claims or convictions have no bearing on naming the driver.

If the capture is close to a limit change then it might be worth checking out the Traffic Regulation Order with the council.

Do you know what sort of camera caught you? It's always worth asking for photo's to assist in identifying the driver - it might be a nice frontal.......
Western Promise
'Phone your bank ...their system MIGHT have the time even if the statement doesn't show it

It was a petrol station Link machine. She checked her balance on screen and did nothing else. My bank says they can only retrieve a timestamp if the withdrawal was from one of their own machines. I was really surprised by this. What if you needed to prove your card had been cloned and was being used in two different places at the same time? But maybe they make more effort in cases where the bank's being defrauded.

I tend to bin receipts right after checking that the cash amount withdrawn is correct. At a petrol station, of course, there are bins aplenty. If it had been a high street machine I might have kept it. }:-(

Be very careful - the current claims or convictions have no bearing on naming the driver.

Quite. But as she has prangs and hence a dodgy insurance record, and I don't, my volunteering helps her out. So if we're not sure, is it even safe to volunteer? Or should I just all the above out?

Incidentally, do insurance companies treat speed awareness courses and points equally? Are they disclosable?
CuriousOrange
Deliberately lying is when it becomes a risk.

As suggested above, she should ask for photos (not evidence) to help identify the driver. She has to give some form of reply before the 28 days are up even if the photos don't arrive or don't help.

QUOTE (Western Promise @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 13:59) *
...in this case in a 30 that 50 yards back was a 60...

Knowing that it was 50 yards into a thirty zone suggests either a fixed GATSO that you know as there (in which case a court would be expected to believe that you recall all that but neither of you remembers a flash) or that you/your wife noticed the camera van at the time and thought 'uh-oh'.

Unless you have a convicing reason as to knowing that the alleged offence was detected fifty yards past the 30mph sign yet not knowing who was driving at the time?

Edit: "50 yards back" also suggests that you know that it was detected on the way into the 30 mph zone rather than heading out of it.
andy_foster
If you carelessly, recklessly or innocently name the wrong driver, you commit the offence of failing to provide the [actual] driver's details, the same as if you do not respond at all - although if you name a driver it will not be immediately obvious that you have named the wrong one, unless you do not respond at all in which case they will know that you have not named a driver.

However, if you deliberately name the wrong driver - that is to say you name someone that you know was not driving, rather than merely being uncertain which of you was driving, that would constitute perverting the course of justice - for which Chris Huhne, Vicky Pryce, and a chap called Andrew Kelly - who posted on here under the username "andyroo" all got 8 months.

Western Promise
As I say I've not seen the NIP yet so I don't know exactly where it was. I do recall though that you breast a steepish rise and there's a camera immediately, on the downward slope. This would tend to stop you scrubbing off speed fast enough. You can be braking as you get into the 30, but going downhill, you aren't slowing down fast enough.

That would be my bet as to where it was, anyway. You can be braking but not hard enough.

I don't recall any 30 signs so I assume it's a 30 because it becomes built up. It doesn't actually, it's farmland around there and where the 30mph starts must be pretty arbitrary.

I last had a speeding ticket 27 years ago, so I am usually good on this stuff. If they're my points so be it. Sounds like I should ask for a photo.
Jlc
QUOTE (Western Promise @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 15:21) *
Sounds like I should ask for a photo.

Yes! But it doesn't stop the deadlines. Actually, your partner should request asap.

We have had cases where a driver nomination has been returned asking for them to 'try again'... (For example when the sex of the nominee clearly doesn't match the photo's they have)

If the camera is a Gatso then it's only got a shot of the rear of the vehicle which probably won't assist...?
CuriousOrange
It would probably be best for you to fill out the NIP wizard once you've got home and can see it properly.

If it's a fixed camera and no driver is named the court might not believe that neither of you could remember the double flash.

30 mph limits aren't arbitrary. They're usually denoted by a system of street lighting (and so begin a the first lamp post) or if there's no such system then by a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) in which case there would have to be 30mph signs. The 'built-up' rule went out many years ago.

If it were a TRO limit and a fixed GATSO it would be quite a surprise to discover that the camera were situated outside the limit.
Western Promise
I certainly don't remember any double flash.

When I say the 30mph limit is arbitrary, the one I'm thinking of must start in the middle of a field. you basically drive through farmland over a bridge, on to a roundabout and that is then clearly urban. I don't think there's even a footpath.

One of us is bang to rights but it's a far from obvious place for a 30mph limit to suddenly kick in.
Jlc
QUOTE (Western Promise @ Fri, 17 May 2013 - 15:55) *
One of us is bang to rights but it's a far from obvious place for a 30mph limit to suddenly kick in.

Can you tell us where? Google Street View might reveal all.

A 30mph terminal sign will be required - street lighting also unless signed to the contrary.
peterguk
OP, please fill out the NIP Wizard so we have all the relevent information.

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