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siy13
Hi this is my first post as im pretty desperate and help will be appreciated

I went to visit my girlfriend a month ago in london and could not use her driveway as someone else was using it, i parked over the road as i thought that as she was a resident it would be fine, a few hours later i left and there wasnt a problem until today when i got a Notice to Owner, there is proof that the the PCN was posted to the car but when i returned it was gone and this is the first i heard about it, i would be ok to pay the reduced charge but just cant afford the full fine, if anybody could give me information whether because i didnt get the PCN that i can pay the half fine even though the deadline has passed.

Any help in this matter would be great as i am in a bit of a mess here

Stuart











Incandescent
Disappearing PCNs seem to be getting more and more common these days. There is no way you can demand to pay the discounted amount having now got the NTO, the photo shows the PCN on your car. If you don't want to appeal all the way, then you could contact the council to explain the circumstances and ask if you can pay the discount amount as a matter of goodwill, as you admit you parked incorrectly. If they won't allow this, then it is a no-brainer to take the appeal to adjudication, there are no additional costs, just the full PCN amount.
Korting
That PCN looks like it wasn't stuck on correctly. it would appear that the CEO left ost of the backing paper on, giving minimal chance for it to stick to the windscreen.

I won at PATAS on this very point.
siy13
Thanks for your quick replys, i am just wondering what is the best way to contact the council in this matter, via email or phone call thanks
Mr Mustard
PCN go missing all the time in Barnet. I think wardens take the photos and then remove the PCN for a laugh and to cut down the number of people who can pay the 50% rate. You may lose at PATAS on the affixed point. It is 50/50 depending on which adjudicator you get. Your PCN is affixed, just not quite all of it. They are often simply tucked under the wiper which some adjudicators regard as tradition and OK.

For now I would appeal to Barnet on the grounds that the lines marking out the bay do not accord with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 - they are the wrong length and worn away. That will give them something to do at Barnet. You can email barnet@nslservices.co.uk

Once rejected, your appeal to PATAS will add the non-compliance of the Notice to Owner.

Look up reference 213008458A
PATAS Website

and then you will see your NtO is the same. Don't appeal this to barnet as I don't want them to correct the wording and they will say there is nothing wrong with it anyway.

I will follow this thread.
siy13
QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Thu, 9 May 2013 - 16:39) *
PCN go missing all the time in Barnet. I think wardens take the photos and then remove the PCN for a laugh and to cut down the number of people who can pay the 50% rate. You may lose at PATAS on the affixed point. It is 50/50 depending on which adjudicator you get. Your PCN is affixed, just not quite all of it. They are often simply tucked under the wiper which some adjudicators regard as tradition and OK.

For now I would appeal to Barnet on the grounds that the lines marking out the bay do not accord with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 - they are the wrong length and worn away. That will give them something to do at Barnet. You can email barnet@nslservices.co.uk

Once rejected, your appeal to PATAS will add the non-compliance of the Notice to Owner.

Look up reference 213008458A
PATAS Website

and then you will see your NtO is the same. Don't appeal this to barnet as I don't want them to correct the wording and they will say there is nothing wrong with it anyway.

I will follow this thread.


Thanks for your advice, i have sent an email quoting the fact the the PCN was not attached correctly and that the bay was not correct, can you please confirm what you meant by "Once rejected, your appeal to PATAS will add the non-compliance of the Notice to Owner."

Thanks Stuart
Mr Mustard
Sorry to not be clear.

I have written a short guide to the process which you can find here

What I mean is that you have 3 grounds of appeal

1 PCN not affixed
2 Lines faded and the wrong length
3 Notice to owner incorrectly worded.

Now you have reached the Notice to Owner you are at the second stage appeal of 3 stages. It is not worth appealing point 3 to Barnet Council as they rarely admit error.

If Barnet Council accept your appeal on point 1 or 2 the game is over and you are in the clear. If they don't, as is more likely, then you go to the third stage appeal, PATAS

At that stage you add in the 3rd appeal point as the adjudicator is impartial and should follow the previous case 213008458A (they are not precedents but the decision should be persuasive). You only need the adjudicator to accept one of your points as valid for the ticket to be cancelled.

If Barnet reject your appeal please put the letter up (personal data crossed out) as any error in that letter, which will be a Notice of Rejection of Representations, can be added as a further appeal point to PATAS.

OK?

siy13
QUOTE (Mr Mustard @ Thu, 9 May 2013 - 19:55) *
Sorry to not be clear.

I have written a short guide to the process which you can find here

What I mean is that you have 3 grounds of appeal

1 PCN not affixed
2 Lines faded and the wrong length
3 Notice to owner incorrectly worded.

Now you have reached the Notice to Owner you are at the second stage appeal of 3 stages. It is not worth appealing point 3 to Barnet Council as they rarely admit error.

If Barnet Council accept your appeal on point 1 or 2 the game is over and you are in the clear. If they don't, as is more likely, then you go to the third stage appeal, PATAS

At that stage you add in the 3rd appeal point as the adjudicator is impartial and should follow the previous case 213008458A (they are not precedents but the decision should be persuasive). You only need the adjudicator to accept one of your points as valid for the ticket to be cancelled.

If Barnet reject your appeal please put the letter up (personal data crossed out) as any error in that letter, which will be a Notice of Rejection of Representations, can be added as a further appeal point to PATAS.

OK?


Thanks for your help the guide helped alot, just a few questions that if you could clear up for me would be great.

1. I have emailed barnet council using the email address you provided, quoting the first two points, i assume as the NTO has arrived im at stage 2 but i am a bit confused about the time scales that are involved-

-So do i now have to wait upto 56 days?
-Or do i have to appeal through the website?
-Will i get some sort of confirmation that the email has been received

2. I am also a bit worried that i am out of the 28day window to appeal??? If i wait out the 56days will this cause my fine to increase or other action to be taken???

Thanks Stuart
SchoolRunMum
You've got an NTO and it TELLS you what your options are - of course you don't wait and ignore it. Eeeek! You draft an appeal of course and please show us the draft first if you want help.
Hippocrates
I disagree with Mr Houghton. How is Regulation 3(3)(d)(ii) satisfied on that NtO?

(d)that if representations which have been made—
(i)within the payment period; or
(ii)outside that period but not disregarded,
are not accepted by the enforcement authority the recipient of the notice may appeal against the authority’s decision to an adjudicator; and


Completely illogical.
hcandersen
Have you made representations against the NTO? If so, pl post them - actual wording, not a paraphrased version.

siy13
So far i have done the following as suggested:

"To: barnet@nslservices.co.uk
Date: Thu, 9 May 2013

To whom it may concern,

Today I received a Notice To Owner (Penalty charge notice: AG11027868 Reg: N977CWP) this is the first i have heard of the Penalty Charge Notice i received as on return to the vehicle the PCN was not present on the vehicle itself so did not get the chance to pay the reduced fine. I am emailing to kindly request that i pay the reduced fine due to the PCN not being present and in turn I have not seen, i have seen the pictures that have been taken at the seen but it is clear to see that the PCN was not correctly affixed to the vehicle leading to the notice becoming detached. Also it has been bought to my attention on review of the photos provided by CEO it has also come to light that the lines marking out the bay do not accord with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 - they are the wrong length and worn away. The combination of the two i believe should either lead to a cancellation of the PCN or at least good grace to allow me to pay the reduced fine as this was out of my control.

Again i am writing to you to kindly ask if a can pay the discount amount as a matter of goodwill as i did not receive the option to pay the reduced rate as the CEO did not correctly attach the PCN to the windscreen giving a minimal chance for it to stick to the windscreen leading to the current situation. I am happy to resolve this matter with payment of the minimal fine if this is not upheld then i am happy to take the appeal to adjudication.

Kind Regards"

This EMAIL has been sent directly to Barnet but im nt sure if i should have done this via the website itself because then i know the complaint has been logged.
I am not the sharpest tool in the shed so i am not quite sure on what Hippocrates is saying in the last reply if someone could explain this it would be great.

Again thanks for any help anyone has provided







Hippocrates
Why offer to pay as the NtO is flawed? You need the PCN and the 14 days extended from service of your last communication.
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