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murrayst
I've received a court summons on 26/04/2013 which is "to show cause why the penalty imposed in the Netherlands for the sum of £75.61 imposed on 20th Nov 2012 should not be registered in accordance with section85 of the criminal justice and immigration act 2008 " but doesn't say what the penalty is for. This is the first and only correspondence I have ever had from either Holland or the uk courts. I have spoken to the courts in UK and all they can tell me is it is for a speeding offence, but i have had nothing prior to this, so have not been able to refute or accept the allegation. What are my options? Thanks in advance for any help.

glasgow_bhoy
Were yu in Holland at that time in your own or a rental car?
murrayst
i was in holland working and had a hire car there were 2-3 of us who could have been driving
sgtdixie
One danger of all these type of cases is assuming the law in Holland is the same as that in the UK. If you were the hirer it is possible (just guessing) the keeper is liable. SO first thing is find out about the conviction and Dutch law.
emanresu
Or have a look here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/85


Seems a lot of work for £75
The Rookie
We have seen one like this before, the fine has been imposed in an EU state, the hearing will merely be to see if you have to pay it, the rights or wrongs of the original case including who was driving are all irrelevant.

What is most relevant is convicning the court you were not aware of the case at all, that should be given in the paperwork as one of your available 'defences'. Is there a copy of any of the Dutch paperwork which you can use to confirm the address used?
murrayst
No the only paperwork I have is the uk summons as i have received nothing from the dutch courts, i have read i can make a statuatory decleration within 21 days of receiving the summons, declaring i know nothing about the circumstances surrounding the charges or conviction is that correct?
southpaw82
QUOTE (murrayst @ Tue, 30 Apr 2013 - 21:08) *
No the only paperwork I have is the uk summons as i have received nothing from the dutch courts, i have read i can make a statuatory decleration within 21 days of receiving the summons, declaring i know nothing about the circumstances surrounding the charges or conviction is that correct?


No, as the original summons (or whatever Dutch courts use) was not issued under s. 1 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980.
The Rookie
In that case, all you can do is swear under oath that you receievd nothing and were unaware of the case, the paperwork for the UK hearing will usually detail the defences and as such one defences is that you were unaware of the proceeedings. If you are credable they should 'decline' to register the fine in the UK.

What UK statute is stated on the summons you have?
murrayst
The only reference i can see on the summons is in the Applications or complaints section which says "to show cause why the penalty imposed in the Netherlands for the sum of £75.61 imposed on 20th Nov 2012 should not be registered in accordance with section85 of the criminal justice and immigration act 2008"
The Rookie
Grounds for refusal (by the court to register it as a UK debt) are here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/schedule/19
so
1/ You need to know exactly what the alleged offence was, and is it an offence in the UK, either way....
2/ Section 6 is most telling
QUOTE
6The certificate does not confirm that—
(a)if the proceedings in which the decision was made were conducted in writing, the liable person was informed of the right to contest the proceedings and of the time limits that applied to the exercise of that right;
(b)if those proceedings provided for a hearing to take place and the liable person did not attend, the liable person was informed of the proceedings or indicated an intention not to contest them.

(My bold)
B seem to apply here, if they believe your verbal evidence you were not aware of any action against you they MUST refuse the application,if there is no evidence they did try and notify you in the pack, then that must aid your cause! (they wouldn't consider an S172 prosecution without some evidence an S172 was sent!)
Welcome back as well!
murrayst
Thanks for all your help, i guess i'll just have to see how it plays out.
The Rookie
It would help if you could scan (or photo at a push) depersonalise and show us all you have so we can see if it complies with the legistlation.
murrayst
Hi here is the summons (depersonalised) sorry it took so long
The Rookie
Anything else at all? What copies of 'stuff' from Holland?
murrayst
That is the only thing i have ever had, nothing at all from Holland.
The Rookie
See my quote above, they clearly can't be showing that if there is nothing else at all!
murrayst
The summons came in the post last Friday and it was the first i had heard about it. It doesn't tell you on the summons what it is for and i had no idea what it was about until a clerk a the summons office told it was for a speeding fine.
nucleargrab
I got something very similar, never set foot in Holland apart from the airport. What was the verdict?
southpaw82
Considering this thread is from 2013 and the OP hasn't been seen in more than a year you may be waiting a long time for an answer.
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