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Donhinio
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Kent
Date of the offence: - February 2013
Date you received the NIP: - within 14 days
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A282 Dartford Tunnel Approach, Dartford
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company car
How many current points do you have? - 0
Speed: 64mph in a 50 mph zone
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - Travelling anti clockwise on M25 (A282) approaching Dartford Tunnel there are now multiple 50mph SPECS average speed cameras on the overhead gantries for a very short distance appraoching the toll booths. I am pretty sure I was not speeding through this zone as I always put on my cruise control when I see any average speed sign. It just doesn't all stack up to me.

** This would be my first speeding conviction since I passed my test over 20 years ago.

Hello,

I wrote to the provided address at Kent Poilce asking for a copy of the calibration certificate for the camera that caught me speeding. A copy of a certificate was returned (site code ref 77) which was indeed in date. I then wrote back asking for the calibration of the second camera (takes two cameras to get an average). I received a reply saying they would not send me any more information as this was 'not a requirement'.

I have a couple of questions:
1. Are the Police required to provide me with calibration certificates if asked?
2. Do SPECS camera have one certificate per camera or one for a chain/pair of communicating cameras?
3. How do I know I have been sent the calibration certificate for the correct camera? Is there a checkable database of cameras?
4. If I decide to not to fight the case, will I be given the points automatically, or do I need to contact them to confirm this?

Many thanks in advance for any help or advice given,
Donhinio.


scottishpoet
What have you received so far? A request to name the driver?

If so then you have not been accuse dof anything. If yiu name yourself as the driver, at 64 in a 50 you should get offered a SAC (unless you continue to play silly buggers).

Otherwise you will get offered a COFP, an offer to deal with the situation outside of court, which you can chose to reject.

If you reject it then they may chose to take you to court.

If they do, then you can plead not guilty. Only then are they obliged to provide you with any "evidence". It is highly unlikely there will be an admin error such as calibration not being current. It will be an expensive and likely fruitless exercise.
Jlc
Given the offence was in Feb, have you responded naming the driver? (Unequivocally within 28 days)
Pete D
Sounds like you missed the first camera. Jlc has a very good question we await your reply. Pete D
Donhinio
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 28 Apr 2013 - 10:33) *
Given the offence was in Feb, have you responded naming the driver? (Unequivocally within 28 days)


Yes - company car so this was done by them.
kommando
QUOTE
Yes - company car so this was done by them.



They did their bit but that results in a new NIP directly to you, have you filled this in and returned, the clock on the 28 days was reset when the 2nd one to you was sent and you also need to respond or its 6 points etc.
Donhinio
QUOTE (kommando @ Sun, 28 Apr 2013 - 11:28) *
QUOTE
Yes - company car so this was done by them.



They did their bit but that results in a new NIP directly to you, have you filled this in and returned, the clock on the 28 days was reset when the 2nd one to you was sent and you also need to respond or its 6 points etc.


Yes, that was completed and returned.

Just for my own understanding, what are your opinions on the following points:
1. Are the Police required to provide me with calibration certificates if asked?
2. Do SPECS camera have one certificate per camera or one for a chain/pair of communicating cameras?
3. How do I know I have been sent the calibration certificate for the correct camera? Is there a checkable database of cameras?

Thanks.
southpaw82
The police don't have to provide you with anything at this stage.
scottishpoet
OK, so you appear to have esponded to the NIP and now appear to have a COFP - an offer to deal with this through 3 points and a £60?

if so, you have a choice, accept or reject the COFP. If you reject the COFP they will take you to court

You will then get a chance to plead guilt or not guilty. Only if you plead not guilty are you entitled to any evidence.

It is highly unlikely that you will find an administrative error such as lack of calibration

What evidence do you have that you were not speeding?
Logician
Are there in fact SPECS average speed cameras there, or HADECS cameras? Yellow vultures on poles, or boxes on the overhead gantries? I cannot remember from last time I was down that way. HADECS cameras are used with variable speed limits on managed motorways, which I thought that was; if so they take an instantaneous speed reading, rather than an average. If you were thinking it was an average speed zone when it was not, you might have considered you had more time to adjust your speed.

If it was SPECS cameras, AFAIK no one has successfully challenged them, the setting really being when they are first positioned. You are very unlikely to gain anything from calibration certificates in any event.
norahl
QUOTE (Donhinio @ Sun, 28 Apr 2013 - 11:35) *
QUOTE (kommando @ Sun, 28 Apr 2013 - 11:28) *
QUOTE
Yes - company car so this was done by them.



They did their bit but that results in a new NIP directly to you, have you filled this in and returned, the clock on the 28 days was reset when the 2nd one to you was sent and you also need to respond or its 6 points etc.


Yes, that was completed and returned.

Just for my own understanding, what are your opinions on the following points:
1. Are the Police required to provide me with calibration certificates if asked?
2. Do SPECS camera have one certificate per camera or one for a chain/pair of communicating cameras?
3. How do I know I have been sent the calibration certificate for the correct camera? Is there a checkable database of cameras?

Thanks.


1. No

2. One per system, systems can now have hundreds of cameras.

3. It isn't going to be difficult to send you the correct one, they know where the system is and it isn't likely to move. The certificate is for the system not a camera. The link you have been measured over will be mentioned in the certificate. They don't have to provide it to you in any case, they only need to do that if you show that you have evidence that the measurement is incorrect. As you don't have any then the certificate need not be given to you but probably will be if you go to court.
Donhinio
Not much choice by the look of it.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice...

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