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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Chrishill19
Hi

On Saturday 5th April, i parked in Appold Street in London. There are several pay and display signs visible, and as the sign stated, i needed to pay from 08:30 to 13:30.
I looked up and down the street and saw ONE pay and display machine. I thought nothing of it and walked over to the machine, which wanted £2 for ALL day on a saturday. So i purchased my parking ticket. Displayed it in my car window and when i came back to my car i had a parking ticket.
At first i was confused because i had a valid ticket, but after walking up and down the street, several times, i found that there was in fact a pay and display ticket machine, tucked around the corner,hidden behind a lamp post, on a different street.

Contravention code: 06
''A PCN may be issued if a vehicle is not displaying a valid pay and display ticket, displaying obscured pay and display ticket or ticket is face down. This contravention is only applicable in ‘off street’ car parks and ‘on street’ pay and display parking places''

It appears that the machine i used might be for a different council. Am not 100% sure.

Personally i feel totally mugged off because its not like i was trying to get away with not paying. My company pay for all parking why wouldnt i want to pay.
I went to the closest machine, unaware that the correct one was tucked around the corner.

Do i have a case here to argue?

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ScottA
Do the following: repost the PCN, both front and back pages in FULL so we can see all of it. It is hard to see with what you have put up. Also, a copy of the pay and display ticket.

Finally, a link from google street view to exactly where you parked will be critical for us to help you.

I go around the area a lot and it does border on City of London, Islington and Hackney councils, so there may be room for error there.

Get the above sorted soon
orford
QUOTE (Chrishill19 @ Sun, 7 Apr 2013 - 19:48) *
It appears that the machine i used might be for a different council. Am not 100% sure.
Correct, Hackney boundary runs down the middle of Appold St, so only the west side is in Hackney.
Chrishill19
I cant upload them because it says i have no space.

I uploaded them to my website. Have a look there...

www.lastmanstandingcomp.yolasite.com/k
SchoolRunMum
You are not 'uploading' them. You are just hosting them on tinypic or other legit free hosting site and just pasting the URL here in a reply so the picture shows. See the FAQs.
Chrishill19
i know how to upload them!

The file is larger than the available space and wont let me do anything else. Can you see the images on the website i put on there?
Chrishill19
the images on street view or very very old. i was parked outside the bulidng EARL PLACE which has bikes parked in the space. Also the ticket machones have not been installed. if you see ALL BAR ONE, the pub, so its on your left, if you walk up the road, and turn left, you will see a bin next to a lamp post. The new machine is in place of the bin. tucked well out of the way.
ScottA
I took a walk down the road myself today and by looking at the ticket you purchased it was definitely for the city of London council and you were parked in hackney. The sign by where you parked directs you to the machine( albeit hidden around the corner) but seems you bought one from the other side of the road. I don't think you have any chance with adjudication.

Your only shot is to appeal informally to the council and explain you case with puppy dog eyes and ask for their discretion. If they don't crack( they want the cash) then best to pay at discount.




Chaseman
Scott's advice is probably the best course to follow. Technically you were in the wrong, albeit you tried to do the right thing but were misled. I am aware that there is a specific exemption for this sort of mistake in Lincolns Inn Fields (unless things have changed recently) where half the square is covered by Westminster and half by Camden but there are no signs to indicate which bit is which. In your case there is a sign saying Hackney and an arrow pointing you towards the correct machine but nonetheless you bought a ticket from the nearest visible machine. I expect if you look at this machine carefully and the ticket produced by it, it will say City of London.

In the circs, send in a copy of the P&D ticket you bought, explain it was an honest mistake and seek their discretion. I suggest you might also send them a cheque for £2 to cover the cost of parking and say that you have "written off" the £2 you paid City of London that you never used (!) If you get back a form letter to say "we are convinced the contravention occurred, it is the motorist's responsibility to ensure they have correctly paid for and displayed a permit or voucher etc etc" with no mention of discretion, then I think you have a valid case to appeal against NTO because the council will not have followed SoS guidance to councils in dealing with parking contraventions (2010) i.e. it must actively consider mitigating circumstances. If they say "we have considered your plea for mitigation but do not think you have made a persuasive case" then I would pay at the discount rate. Suggest in your challenge you say "please confirm that you will freeze the discount period pending your response".
Chrishill19
Guys

Thanks for your replies. Im not the best at writing letters so here is something i drafted. Please can you say if you think i should add, change, or remove anything!

Thanks


To whom it may concern

On Saturday, 6th April, i parked illegally on Appold street. I was totally unaware that the road was split between
2 councils and used the pay and display machine which was visible to me. The pay and display machine for Hackney
is hidden around a corner behind a lamp post (See attached image).


I have no reason what so ever to not pay and display because my company pay for the tickets, However they do not pay for
the parking fines.

I am more than happy to send a cheque for the correct amount due for my stay (The whole day). I have written
off the £2 i put in the city of london pay and siaplay machine,

Please find attached a copy of the parking ticket which i purchased as evidence that i did honestly attempt
to pay and display.

Please confirm that you will freeze the discount period pending your response.

Thanks

disgrunt
QUOTE (Chrishill19 @ Mon, 8 Apr 2013 - 14:31) *
To whom it may concern

On Saturday, 6th April, i parked illegally on Appold street. I was totally unaware that the road was split between
2 councils and different charges applied to each side of the road. I could not see a pay and display machine on the side of the road I parked so I used the pay and display machine on the opposite side of the road which was the only machine visible to me. On returning to my car I found a PCN and on inspection I deduced that I had parked in Hackney yet used a machine from other council. I then searched for a hackney machine and the nearest one was x paces away on other street which is n around a corner behind a lamp post (See attached image).


I have no reason what so ever to not pay and display because my company reimburses me for parking charges, However they do not pay for
parking fines.

I enclose a cheque for £x which covers the correct cost of my parking that I would have paid had I seen the correct machine (I stayed all day). I have written
off the £2 i put in the city of london pay and display machine.

Please find attached a copy of the parking ticket which i purchased as evidence that I had tried to pay to park on the street and I trust that you will now cancel the PCN as there has been no attempt on my part to evade paying to park.
Thanks


What about the above - but I'm sure more knowledgeable members might give better advice still
Chaseman
A few small amendments to suggest. I do recommend you actually send them the £2. It's a small investment to protect against a £130 PCN and if they cash it I can't see how they can possibly pursue you for the fine.

"On Saturday, 6th April, I parked on Appold Street London EC3 (?) and bought and displayed a P&D ticket. I was totally unaware that the road was split between 2 councils (Hackney and City of London) and used the pay and display machine which was visible to me, which turned out to be a City of London machine. The pay and display machine for Hackney is hidden around a corner behind a lamp post (See attached image). I was then given a PCN for not having a valid ticket for the Hackney side of the street. I had bought one in good faith but had made an honest mistake.

I have no reason whatsoever to not pay and display because my company pay for the tickets. However they do not pay for the parking fines.

As a token of good faith I enclose a cheque for £2 for the P&D ticket I should have bought from a Hackney P&D machine being the correct amount due for the day's parking. I have written off to experience the £2 I put in the City of London pay and display machine.

Please find attached a copy of the City of London P&D ticket which I purchased, as evidence that I did honestly attempt to pay and display. I would ask you please to use your discretion to cancel the PCN on grounds of mitigating circumstances.

I am making this informal challenge within 14 days of the date on the PCN. Please confirm that you will freeze the discount period pending your response.

Love & kisses etc."

hcandersen
It looks fine because it's a simple account of a straightforward story with your stamp on it which is as it should be when asking a council to exercise discretion.
Chrishill19
Guys

I sent the letter on friday last week by first class.

I have received nothing as of yet from the council and the ticket needs to be paid tomorrow for the discount rate.

Do i pay it or leave it?

Really dont want to have to pay the £80.....
Chaseman
If you pay they will close the case and bin your challenge. Did you put in the words I suggested at foot of post #12? It helps but is not vital. The council is in any case not required to (and often will not) respond to your informal challenge within the 14 day period. I have had a look at Hackney's website and cannot see a specific pledge that they will re-offer the discount if your informal challenge is rejected, but most councils do and it is part of the Sec. of State's guidance on CPE recommendations that they do.

You should be safe to sit it out pending the council's reply. Others will no doubt comment if Hackney is known to have a practice of not re-offering the discount.
Chrishill19
Yes i put loves and kisses etc at the foot of the letter!

Only joking! Yes i put down about freezing the discount period.

I will sit tight then

Thanks
Chrishill19
Guys

I received a letter the following day, 20th April, saying that at their discretion, they will cancel the pcn.

They did say however that it is totally up to the driver to make sure that the correct ticket is displayed in the correct council and other offences might not be treated the same way as this one was.

Thanks for your help guys!
Incandescent
Well done !! No doubt some po-faced functionary produced the letter using a template.
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