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aaj123
First post on this forum. Recently started driving and haven't received any pcn yet but want to be clear on how not to get one. I want to know what the right thing to do this if I want to stop for a minute or two in a CPZ for perhaps adjusting my satnav, checking a map or maybe just to quickly check my kid's car seat strap i.e something which will take maybe a couple of minutes but obviously require me to stop. If a I happen to be in a CPZ during it's hours of operation, every street seems to have single or yellow double lines (this includes even quiet inner residential streets). So what are my legally correct options if I do want to stop for a moment and want to avoid getting a parking ticket? Do I need to use one of the parking bays in some inner side road and if I do so, do I need to purchase a parking ticket just for the privilege of stopping two minutes in the parking bay? Seems unreasonable to me to have to buy a parking ticket for each time I want to just stop for a couple of minutes to check my map. But is there another option that I am overlooking?
clark_kent
https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking
Incandescent
Your question really needs to be asked at the highest levell i.e. government and MPs who pass the legislation, because at one time, in the normal course of motoring, people would stop for very short periods of time to do all of the things you state. No hold-ups or blockages normally occurred because commonsense prevailed, with people not blocking others and Traffic Wardens moving on anybody who was there too long. Tooted horns normally were a pretty good deterrent to selfish people anyway !

And, of course, then, there was no all-seeing and malevolent CCTV looking for the slightest, tiniest contravention. Now there is. The basic problem at the moment is there are no restraints at all on councils issuing PCNs for the most trivial of offences, combined with the law being deficient in not defining when 'stopping' becomes 'waiting'. Any motorist stopping will incur a short time stationary before moving on, and it is this interval that is in contention here. A Judicial Review, (which I cannot find at the moment on the internet, but have seen), argues this out in terms of de minimis non curat lex, a well-known ENglish legal concept meaning "the law does not concern itself with trifling offences". However, councils see every transgression however small as an earning opportunity and issue PCNs for these "offences" and the poor old motorist either has to pay up, or go to adjudication. Any appeal has to be on de minimis, but with no certainty of success because there is no legal definition of how long has to elapse before stopping becomes waiting. Most adjudicators apply commonsense, and of course, one also has to apply this when stopping.

We know that "stopping" is different to "waiting" because Red Routes and Clearways have been introduced to prevent stopping as well as waiting. In addition, there are the zig--zag markings outside schools that ban stopping at certain times. However despite this, there is nothing in law defining when a stop becomes a wait.

So it is down to commonsens being applied, but the trouble is commonsense is no longer common, especially in councils who look upon the whole process as merely administrative means of earning shedloads of money.
qafqa
QUOTE
A Judicial Review, (which I cannot find at the moment on the internet,
but have seen)

Sorry to hijack your thread aaj but is this the one?
City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council v Obaid
mentioned here:
"Parked" with wheels over footpath... for 10 seconds!
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=69921
Some other cases, 2110457775, 2010000692, 2110689271
Incandescent
I'll check up, but the key words in the adjudication decision is: -

"Waiting has been judicially defined as stopping which is more than merely nominal." (my underline).

Judicially defined means by a judge not in any statute. It is the definition of "nominal" that we would all like to see more guidance on, if not a legal definition. Maybe a second issue of the Statutory Guidance ? However, experience suggests that the DfT will remain supine on this and so many other issues. Every minister for the DfT seems to look upon it a just a "minding the shop" kind of job.
Incandescent
I found the case, which was an appeal against a case at a magistrates court. The relevant clauses are: -

QUOTE
11. In my judgment, Mr Blair-Gould's submissions are correct and are supported by the
existence of the special statutory defence in section 64(4) of the 1976 Act. The word “
wait” is a word which is frequently used in English and should be given its natural and
ordinary meaning, that meaning being the one which is appropriate to the context in
which the word is used. I put it that way because, like many commonly used words, “
wait” is capable of a number of meanings, or shades of meaning, and its particular
meaning in any given case will be that which is appropriate to its context.

12. In my view, in the context in which it is used in the present case, “ to wait” means
to remain in the same place for a period of time which is other than purely nominal. In
my judgment, on the facts as found by the justices, although it was very short in
duration, the period of time during which the respondent's motor car remained within
the hackney stand in question whilst the respondent dropped off his passengers, cannot
properly be regarded as purely nominal. The existence of the statutory defence under
section 64(4) clearly supports that conclusion. I am of the firm opinion that the justices
should have come to the conclusion that, on the facts of this case, the respondent did
cause his motor car to wait on the hackney stand in question.
aaj123
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 6 Mar 2013 - 10:15) *
I'll check up, but the key words in the adjudication decision is: -

"Waiting has been judicially defined as stopping which is more than merely nominal." (my underline).


It also further mentions 'Waiting is synonymous with parking'. So this would suggest that pulling into a pay and display bay and moving off in a very short time (i.e a nominal amount of time) would not constitute as having parked.

Ofcourse the definition of nominal remains debatable but I suppose one could argue that less than a minute is nominal. So if I want to adjust my satnav or just clear my head in a CPZ during hours of operations, I suppose the right way is to pull up into a pay and display bay and move off in a 'nominal' amount of time.

Actually come to think of it, by this definition, one could even park on a single or double yellow lines and argue that no waiting took place because the amount of time they stopped for was nominal. This drives home the point even more that the definition of 'nominal' needs elaboration. Clearly a different yardstick of 'nominal' would apply when considering whether stopping became 'waiting' in parking bays or on the yellow line in a carriageway.
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