Hello Everybody,
I went through quite unpleasant experince on Friday and would really appreciate some comments/help:

BACKGROUND:
my mother flew to Stansted airport. Her first time there, my first time to pick anybody up there by car. The flight was arriving 10pm so I did not expect the place to be too crowded.
I wanted to be prepared, so went to the internet and found information about express pick up and drop of at the airport:

http://www.stanstedairport.com/static/Stan..._facilities.pdf

I clearly states, it is the closest place to the terminal and it is suitable both for pickup and dropoff. Only obvious limitation is that you cannot stay there for too long.

When I got confirmation of my mother being outside restricted area, I have arrived into pickup area, where apart of signs of 10min £2, 15min £3 and overtime £60 was a sign that I should not leave my vehicle unattended. As I did not want to break any rule, I tried to call my mother, but was not able to reach her. Time was running....
What should I do now? As there was not staff at the lot and quite late, I have decided to take my chances and run towards my mother. Once with the old lady, we were running back. It was like a scene from a movie. The whole sprint did not take more that 3 minutes.

THE ISSUE:
Once back at the car, the vehicle was surrounded by staff from Endeavour Vehicle Services lifting up the vehicle (in the 3 minutes, they were called, came and did not waste their time acting). They could not be that far away either. Noone bothered to take any reasonable measures to make sure owner is not there to remove a vehicle. There was no ticket on my car thatsoever.
I have appologized for my fault and asked them to put my vehicle down. They said, that they have been called already, so thay cannot do so and I have to pay release fee of £180. I have reasoned for a while, but was told that "Stansted rules" say that once vehicle is in the air, cannot be put back. They were well prepared to that having a debit card terminal handy. I was told that once I pay, I can appeal later.
I agree, that leaving my car there was wrong, but at the same time, I feel that paying £180 for someone to lift your car and put it back is not reasonable and fair. I would never leave the vehicle unattended if I could make a pickup in front of the terminal.
Stansted advertised its pickup zone as expensive, but choice for quick pickup. These guys were clearly waiting there just behind the corner for someone like me. They did not bother to fill in a ticket before connecting their truck to the car. Despite they were VERY fast, they were not fast enough. Before they could begin towing, the car was not unattended anymore. If it would be just about removing the car, I was more than happy to do so. But this was not about removing the car, it was about making £180 for private company.
I was not informed about the reason why my car is being towed, about my rights to appeal, about what is the fee for, nothing.
Please find the ticked attached (the ticked was filled in AFTER the car was lifted).

I am not trying to make any excuses for leaving the vehicle, but I feel extremely unfair of what happened. To me as a fist time visitor, the whole system seemed pretty confusing. Yes, I could have had parked somewhere or whatever, but I don't think paying £180 for what I did is adequate.
If everything in Stansted would work as fast as towing, it would be the most efficient and most expensive airport in the world (together with Luton I guess).
Could you give me your comments about legality of the whole thing? To whom and how could I appeal and on what grounds?

FYI here is the ticket:
Click to view attachment

Need to know if they are operating under bye laws or not.

The byelaws are here, but require password to get in.

https://www.pnld.co.uk/docportal/content/@1324.htm

So does it mean that if there is a byelaw allowing them towing, there is nothing I can do? How about the fact that they did not start towing yet? Does it have any importance? Should not I just pay some fee for callout?

I'm not sure on the appeals side of things, but you can give them a headache.
Report them to VOSA

Chase up the VOSA complaint, and don't let them off the hook.

http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymous...equestId=172665

The above license has been revoked.


They are operating illegally.
If you do contact VOSA, I would ask them to clarify whether or not an operators license is needed in writing.
If it is, go back and sue the operator, not only has he lifted your vehicle illegally, but in doing so has demanded monies with menaces, as he had no right to lift your vehicle in the first place.
If it were me I would seriously put the hammer on VOSA, get it in writing that an operators license is needed then persue your claim from there, because if their operators license aren't worth the paper they are written on, then there are thousands of hauliers up and down the country who are operating LEGALLY, and paying through the nose to do so that don't need to be.
Also, the airport would have failed in its duty of care by hiring an illegal operator to administer its car park.

No SIA number?

Appeal? Yeah, right - there is no appeal. (well it will be rejected)

How did you pay?

The only likely way to recover you money is to take them to court.

They weren't called - their MO is to hover and swoop.

I have payed by debit card.
Should I try to cancel the transaction?

Yes. Register a chargeback.

Debit cards are usually harder to 'cancel' - chargeback. Unless you can show the issuer that an illegal act was untaken then it can be tough. They will play the 'you entered the PIN' routine so consented.

Credit card transaction over £100 are covered by section 75 of the CCA.

If I try to get chargeback, can't the towing company try to sue me for the money? Do they have any legal ground to do that?

Can I get into some trouble by requesting chargeback?

There have been cases where the provider has accepted cancellation of a transaction on a Debit Card but I think it has to be a Visa one ( + perhaps a M/Card one ...do you get them ?) but it might only be where ,for example,goods are faulty or not received .

After Endeavours last court appearance, I doubt Mr Fuller would be too keen to go back to court, just ask JPM.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=64994

I would seriously talk to VOSA, it might give you a legal leg to stand on with the fact your car was lifted illegally, by an illegal operator.
It would add weight to your debit card charge back, I would also point out to your debit card company that towing and clamping is now illegal and you where forced to pay because your car was being held to ransom you felt threatened in the situation so had no choice.

Thank you for the link.
How do you know, that the VOSA licence is not valid anymore? There is nothing about it in the record.

Speaking of the SIA number, should not it be on included on my ticket?

http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymous...rsearch_new.asp

This is the page I should have linked.
Click operators license, and enter the number OF1032598, then hit the search button.

He hasn't held an operators license since 2009.
According to VOSAs operators guidelines he is operating illegally.
I'm not in the legal profession, but have held operators licenses in the past as I used to be in the haulage industry.
I can tell you that VOSA do take operators licenses seriously, (they just need a good prod to do anything), they are a legal requirement and are needed by the operator to be properly insured.
By failing to have an operators license, hes breaking a whole raft of laws not least operating his vehicle without insurance.
They try to get round it with the recovery exemption, but his vehicle is outside of that scope as it is being used for the purposes of towing away, completely different.

What would the legal position/liability of the airport (or whoever contracted the outfit) once they were aware they were allowing an illegal operation on their property? Just wondering

5)..The following sub headings DO NOT in VOSA’s view, constitute recovery..

a)..Picking up cars or MOT failures from car auctions.
b)..Picking up cars from Scrap yards.
c)..Removing abandoned wheel clamped/abandoned vehicles from a road, unless that removal is under the instruction of the police of local authority.

VOSA advise that the above list is not exhaustive but should be considered a good indication of what activities may require an operators license.


http://www.bvsf.org.uk/cms/index.php?optio...s&Itemid=55


Pretty clear cut and dried in my opinion, the vehicle was lifted illegally and should be reported to both VOSA and the police.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=74819

Looks like EVS has moved into airports as a means to carry on their illegal enterprise.

EVS do NOT have a VOSA license, They will need one as your car was NOT picked up under the Recovery exemption which Endeavour will claim , (they did this in court under oath and swore they didnt need one) they may be using a another companies vehicle as i know the have connectionss to another recovery comapny in Claction

do you have the Reg of the towing vehicle ?

You can email
enquires@vosa.gov.uk
anne.webb@vosa.gov.uk
david.welham@vosa.gov.uk
anthony.jones@vosa.gov.uk
james.killingback@vosa.gov.uk

they cover the area, and have investigated EVS in the past.

I think they need to catch them in the act

not too difficult a challenge...

Thank you for all the tips.
I have checked with my bank and there is no way of chargeback. Those guys just wanted to sell me a credit card...so next time EVS gets me again, I can file a dispute.

I will definetely write to VOSA.

This is the first time something like that has happened to me. What would you suggest to do next? It would be nice to get my money back (I'll be more than happy giving them to charity), but how? I feel that calling EVS would not help.

Defnitely also escalating as high as you can with Airport management as to why they are allowing illegal activity, and pointing out their potential liability.
LBA to airport probably the best course of action. Forget the towers - you won't get a penny out of them (although a bailiff clamp of their tow truck might be entertaining if possible)

The trick here is to ask if their reply is their full and final answer and you need them to confirm this in writing as you will be raising a complaint with the FSA, this costs them more than the £180 so focuses the mind.

There are different regs for chargeback against a debit card.
You will only succeed, generally, if the recipient of the payment agrees to it.
I had to check this out for myself a little time ago and if you Google for debit card chargeback I'm sure you'll find the same information.

There are plenty of other avenues. The card machines they use are under a strict contract with the suppliers (usually the bank), and any sniff of illegal activity should get it removed. An official complaint to the bank, in writing, stating that the money was obtained under duress and possibly for an illegal act should get a response. I'd also mention that you did not receive the service you paid for, i.e. they did not get a call to lift the car, they were there already.
When you get a reply from the bank post it up (redacted), as I'd like to see what they are fobbing people off with currently. It used to be the old 'chip and pin' excuse. Once you have exhausted the procedure, if you're still not happy, you can complain to the FSO (the Bank MUST enclose details of how to do this with their final reply). There is a reason for all of this as it costs the bank £500+ (win or lose) for the FSO to investigate.

Other should be along to tell you how to write a LBA which should include the Airport owner(s) and the 'Operator'.

Hello :-)

Same thing happened to me as to Vaclove last night at Stansted...just ranupstairs to pick my mother up...was gone for 6 minutes...I honestly did not see the sign not to leave the vehicle unattended...it was just too dark...
Anyway, I paid £180 with my debit card to get the relaese my vehicle which was being held ransom...was so upset that when I came home I googled and found this post....
I have spoken to Mr. Nigel Barrington-Fuller and told him that I knew he was acting illegally without a VOSA license...he laughed and quoted section 3 of the RDAA which I googled...I contacted the Office of Fair Trading who took my details and advised me to send a registered letter to Mr. Barrington-Fuller stating ' The Protection of Freedom Act 2012':
The only authorities allowed to clamp or tow now are the Police & DVLA and that he acted unreasonably & unfairly.
Section 3 of the RDAA states basically just that.
Should I not receive a refund or hear anything back from Endeavour Vehicle Services, who by the way have 64 CCJ's with a value of £629,627 against them (!) and are registered as a 'Wholeseller of Waste & Scrap' I shall take them to the small claims court.
I have contacted VOSA, The Office of Fair Trading, BBC Watchdog & UKBA.

VOSA Reference No. for Endeavour: OF1032598 (confirmed)
VOSA email: enquries@vosa.gov.uk & anne.webb@vosa.gov.uk
Office of Fair Trading Ref.: AB210211028653
Office of Fair Trading email: enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk
UKBA email: UKBACustomerComplaints@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Watchdog email: watchdog@bbc.co.uk

Please keep me updated on your progress :-)

Thank you!


Oh I took pictures too...
The registration of 'my' towing vehicle was X579MKN and my 'receipt' was issued by Mr. C. White.

Thanks :-)

Welcome - definitely worth a fight.

It might be worth starting a new thread if you are planning to update or seek specific assistance?

seconded

I love it when a new poster pops in and has already gathered much info.
kudos.

The fact that they have a ton of CCJs tells you that it would be a complete waste of time & money taking them to court as their track record shows that wouldn't pay. You need to go after the airport operator, who have assets that can be seized by bailiffs if it came to it.

You might also ask questions of the airport management as to why the airport is employing someone with that level of unpaid CCJs against them.

"What we have here, is a total lack of respect for the law."

You "may" find that vehicles operating wholly with airport bpundaries are not required to have operators licences/mot's etc. as they are not used on public roads. However. I doubt the clampits have premises within the airport boundaries in which to keep lifted cars.

I'd also suggest reporting this to the police as well. Essex Police can no longer regard htis as "a civil matter sir" like they used to. It is clearly demanding money with menaces.

There's a similar thread where the OP's raised the point that the private land exemption only applies if the vehicle travels less than six miles /week

Morning :-)

Thanks for all your comments & emails.

I've contacted Halifax to arrange a 'chargeback' yesterday & was informed that I'd need to wait as it hadn't been debited yet...

they would then 'provisionally refund it' and send paperwork...

Has anyone got any details how I could get in contact with Stansted Airport's management...

someone at the airport must know about this as when I was handed my 'receipt' by Endeavour I was told I didn't need to pay

to get out at the barrier...I just pressed the call button and explained what had happened, quoted the 4 digit 'invoice'

number...had to wait a few moments (obviously for someone to confirm with Endeavour) and was let out...

so this all seems rather strange...

Any ideas?

Thanks for all your help...:-)

Hi again :-)

I did contact Essex Police yesterday...explained the whole situation & was told exactly that 'it's a civil matter'...

mmmh...my car was held at ransom...I was forced to pay up to release my car... has anyone's car actually ever been towed or

have they all just been 'lifted'...seems like they just 'lift' them and wait for the owner to come back...

My 'invoice' doesn't even state the 'service' they provided...so if I didn't pay a release, recovery or storage fee what

did I actually pay for?

According to their Creditsafe report they only have 5 employees...I met 3 at Stansted airport...& spoke to Nigel Barrington-

Fuller yesterday...and yes I did have a look at the CCJs they have against them and it seems they never ever paid out once...

how do they manage to get around it?

You need to get your own thread Myke.

From experience of a £50K theft that I know of, Essex Police do not consider anything under £100K as worth spoiling their coffee break.

Of course we now have shiny new Police and Crime Commissioners (at least I vaguely remember forgetting to get round to voting for one last year!)

Could be worth winding up the Essex commissioner with a complaint about police lack of interest in unlawful goings-on at Stansted.

You have acted brilliantly. Since my initial post, I have been contacted by few other people basically describing same scenario.
I have received an email from Essex police saying that when they have made a check at the airport, no parking enforcement vehicles were present. Also it seems that they take advantage of reduced visibility at night.
As EDV works closely with the airport, I am pretty sure they know about police early enough to get lost.
By the way, what was the number on your receipt? Mine was 9508. I was wondering how many people do they roughly get per day. As my receipt has number almost 10000, it could mean that they have already received ca £1,800,000 for lifting up vehicles. That is not a petty cash.

What is the RDAA?

The RDAA is "The Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978" which would apply in the case of the removal of an abandoned vehicle by a Local Authority.

It is unlikely that a vehicle which has been left for 6 minutes would fall into the category of 'abandoned'.

Morning :-)

My receipt is no. 9726...I had to quote this number at the barrier & was let out 'free of charge'....the airport can't deny this & they must have CCTV too...I dropped my Mum back at Stansted Airport yesterday morning at 6.00am...
and they already had a car 'hooked' again and were waiting for their 'victim' to return to pay up...
My mum said airport staff were questioning people how they liked the new parking arrangements at the airport...
I'm sure you can imagine her reply...
I received a reply from Mr Barrington-Fuller via email, which I'll put up...
I replied asking what the actual service was that he supplied as my receipt didn't state this & that I doubt that he had an area where he could actually tow these vehicles to etc., but he never replied to that...
Tried a chargeback to the Visa Debit card and was told this wasn't possible...asked for this on writing to make a complaint with the FSA/FSO...and they promised a call back...which I'm still waiting for...
I also contacted the local council and explained what had happened...no reply so far...


This is Endeavour Vehicle's reply as I copied them in on every email I sent to VOSA etc. ....

Dear Madam
 
I thought I ought to write to place on record my understanding of the law in relation to the two "loopholes" you think you have found.
 
Firstly, you are correct in pointing out clamping (and towing) has been banned on private land by The Freedoms Act.  There are exceptions.  For ease of reading I would refer you to the British Parking Association web site which gives a good laymans explanation of the new law.  you will note that clamping (and towing) are still allowed on certain private land including, inter alia, airports, ports, certain railway stations and certain strategic river crossings.  You will probably immediately appreciate that Stansted Airport is covered. 
 
Secondly, Schedule 3 of the Goods Vehicles Regulations 1995, lists the categories of vehicles that are exempt from operator licensing.  Schedule 3, paragraph 27 confirms that a "recovery vehicle" is exempt from the requirement for an operators licence to be held.  A "recovery Vehicle" is defined in part V of Schedule 1 to the Vehicle and Excise Registrations Act 1994, as "a vehicle which is constructed or permanently adapted primarily for one of thje purposes of lifting, towing and transporting a disabled vehicle.
 
All our lorries have to and do have a VOSA plate.  This is a form of lorry MOT and is a yearly certificate that the vehicle is road worthy.  I don't think this is what you mean.
 
For the work we undertake we only use recovery vehicles and not transporters.  All our vehicles are built as recovery vehicles, plated as recovery vehicles, taxed as recovery vehicles and used as recovery vehicles and for the sake of completeness it is stated on the V5 (log book).
 
As they say if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc.
 
All this having been said all this may be irrelevant (in relation to the VOSA point) as all our work is undertaken on private car parks and private roads.  Technically, in the area we are working we probably do not need to even tax our vehicles.
 
I hope this helps you.
 
Very kind regards
 
Nigel E. J. Barrington-Fuller
01255 830700
 
 
 

That's a very important word.

Foot; meet Bullet hole. Bullet hole; Foot

Just getting some popcorn..

You are absolutely right! None of our vehicles were disabled or needed recovery...!

Just out of interest...has anyone ever seen any of their money back and has anyone got

Stansted Airport management's contact details?

Thank you

There is a contact us page here but that might not be enough for your needs
http://www.stanstedairport.com/help/contact-us
and
Enterprise House, Bassingbourn Road, Essex, United Kingdom CM24 1QW

Tel: 0844 335 1803

The webpage says it is copyright of LHR Airports Ltd if that's any help..

That is a good question. This is going round and round. I have seen a letter from Stansted airport confirming the EDV is authorized to tow away vehicles in that area. The letter however stated as you vehicle has been abandoned for 15 min. None of the vehicles here has been abandoned for 15 min and none of the vehicles was actually towed away.
Judging from the receipts numbers, in 2 weeks (from number 9508 on 1.2.2013 to no. 9726 on 13.2.2013), there were 218 people screwed, generating respectable £39240,- using debit card terminal. Using simple extrapolation that makes 5500 people per year and ca £1000,000!
Bank says it is not banking problem, airport says contact Nigel, Nigel says it is all O.K. (for him it is), police says there are no parking enforcement vehicles present there.
When police is asked to perform checks, they see nothing, and when EVS is brought to justice and CCJ is issued, it is completely ignored.
EVS works closely with the airport, people are not informed about the byelaws and the whole story repeats again and again...is there anything I forgot?

Where's Wee Baldy Dom Littlewood when you need him...He's an Essex Boy ??

If EVS are acting as agents for the airport authority, are they not jointly liable for the actions of their agent?

EVS say that their lawful authority to remove vehicles is either the Airports Act 1986 or Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, neither of those acts give powers to remove vehicles at airports, although s.63 of the airports act does allow airport authorities powers to make byelaws which may give that authority, (in the same way that the transport act gives railway companies powers to make byelaws that do).

The Airport needs to be put to proof that there is an existing byelaw which allows for vehicles to be towed, and that the byelaw allows for a private company to do so. I supect there may be no such enabled byelaw because it was never needed before POFA.

Barrington Fuller should also be replied to, and pressed to explain:

- how towing at an Airport is an exemption if there is no enabled byelaw. If there is such a byelaw you haven't found it. You require a copy because this is going to a small claim.

- how towing a car which is not 'disabled' can in his opinion be lawfully undertaken by a vehicle which only has a VOSA licence for recovery of a disabled vehicle.

And meanwhile, the chargeback needs to be taken to the next level - complaint. It's all pretty simple and free, including the services of an Ombudsman (which I can recommend as it came good for me when I made a complaint against an insurer and subsequently got a full payout). Presumably in their reply the credit card company enclosed a leaflet explaining their complaints procedure? If not then demand it and tell them you'll be taking this to the Financial Services Ombudsman so you need to know that you have 'exhausted' their complaints procedure. They surely cannot allow a payment to be taken for a 'service' that was unsolicited and probably illegal, with the customer being forced to pay.

Thanks Gryphon. Seems that Hyphon-Whatisname is really scraping the barrel trying it on with that one

Here is a link to the Gatwick Airport Byelaws pdf. I searched but could not find the Stanstead equivalent.

As they were all pretty much owned by BAA at some point or another, I would suggest they would be similar. It says that you can obtain a copy of them through the CEO's office (for Gatwick)

http://www.gatwickairport.com/Documents/bu...ick_byelaws.pdf

The managing Director of Stanstead Airport is Here:

http://www.stanstedairport.com/about-us/st.../our-management

Maybe you could drop him a line and ask for a copy.

Ask Mr Barrington Fuller what exactly a "Disabled Vehicle " is and he will tell you " A Vehicle that is locked " he will even do this in the Court undeer oath and still claim he has done nothing wrong and uses the Recovery exemption.
Even Mannages to convince VOSA he has done nothing wrong , VOSA have visited NBF and did not take any action, they told me they need to catch him in the act.

therefore the only way around this is to Park in Stanstead withVOSA and the Police waiting nearby and wait for NBF or EVS to pounce then they have the evidence they need

Oh and there was one CCJ he paid and that was MY ONE !