My gf (yes really, not me!) has to use a shopping centre car park while she's at work. Back in April she gave her bank details to the parking management company, who were supposed to take £40 out each month for her to be able to use a parking card to get in/out. Now she never checked the money was actually coming out, and has been using the car park ever since except for a couple of months when her car was being fixed/we were away. Suddenly she's getting phone calls and emails from a new parking management company saying they have taken over the car park and demanding £360 off her for 9 months since April as no payments were ever received by the old company!

So I'm just wondering if they can suddenly do this with no notice, can they enforce the 'debt' from the old company whose own fault it was they didn't set up a DD and never even contacted my gf or stopped her parking card so she knew there was a problem...could really do without all this as we've just moved house and obviously it's just before Xmas.

Thanks in advance for anyone's help.

Which companies ?

If the new company has bought the old one, they might be entitled to chase up old debts

If not, they can swivel

You will sleep well and eat Turkey this christmas. The Kids xmas gifts are all safe. Any contract with the previous company was an agreement with them and not this new outfit. Their problem not yours I would wager.



A little more detail would help. Names, did she sign a contract etc etc.

The new company is called 'Mc Kibbin Commercial Property Consultants', these are two of the emails she has received from them:


"We are the new managing agents for Quayside Shopping Centre.

Please see attached a standing order mandate for £40.00 for your car park space at Quayside Shopping Centre. I would be most grateful if you could complete and return this to me at the address below?

You will need to cancel your previous standing order paying O Connor Kennedy Turtle.

If you have any queries, then please do not hesitate to contact me."

Then 3 weeks later:

"Further to my e-mail below, we have not received your standing order mandate as yet. I tired to contact you several times today regarding this.

As managing agents for Quayside Shopping Centre, we have not received any payment for your car park space which you began using in April 2012. We therefore need to receive prompt payment of £320.00 to cover the lease of your car park space at Quayside from when you occupied it until now.

I would be most grateful if you could reply to this e-mail or contact me before 1 pm tomorrow to avoid your car park ticket being invalidated."

My gf is not the best with things like this and says she did sign something with the old company, but doesn't have a copy or anything. Problem is she does still need the car park space, there isn't much alternative round her work...

Thanks for the responses so far by the way

If she agreed with the landowner that she should pay £40 a month then the demand for the outstanding payment isn't extortionate. It's not your Gf's fault they didn't take the money at the time but to be honest it's more than likely she'll get her parking denied if she tries to fight her corner on this.

Give the landlord a call and explain that she gave them her account number for them to take payments from themselves. As she didn't really notice if any were or weren't taken she didn't realise any accrual of the amount outstanding. Could they just please wipe the slate clean and do the arrangement all over again. Or maybe increase the mount to be paid over the next year to reflect the shortfall.
Not worth fighting though in my opinion, even if she won she'd lose, if you see what I mean.

Sorry to say but +1.

Thanks Lynnzer, I see what you mean. I don't have an issue with her needing to pay something as obviously she's used the car park, it's just them demanding to have it all at once or threatening to invalidate her card, and also whether they have the right to chase up payment that was due to another company in the first place. Felt to me like they were trying to be a bit cheeky just to get some extra money and seeing if they can get away with it?

But if they do not wipe the slate clean I would not pay a NEW company for an OLD company's debt!

Not sure why on earth anyone would pay £40 per month to park, when some months she doesn't use it.






I agree that is exactly how I read it.

So, if the new company is paid the 'debt' what happens when the old company realise and then also ask for it?

They are trying the gun to the head approach with a threat. Nice company.

OKT still seems to be an extant firm:-

http://www.okt.co.uk/about.php

Might need to see a copy of the agreement she signed. Were OKT purporting to contract on their own behalf or merely as the agents for the landowner?

Has the landowner changed since the agreement was signed?

If the OP's girlfriend is to now pay the monies which should have been paid via OKT over to McKibbin are OKT happy to provide her with an indemnity just in case OKT sue her for the money (or even, somehow, just for their lost commission) or put through the earlier standing order that was signed

If OKT were purporting to contract on their own behalf (not that they should have been) then the OP might stymie McKibbin by asking them (McKibbin) to produce n assignment of rights under s136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 duly executed by OKT.

While I wouldn't want to be thought of as encouraging someone to duck payment of a debt where they've obtained a service without having paid for it, I suppose one option would be to re-register the vehicle to a relative and have that relative apply for a new parking permit at the shopping centre, leaving the landowner (or whoever) to sue the OP (or OKT?) for the money not collected under the old contract if they think it worthwhile ....

I can't overlook the matter of who is the person to whom the debt should be paid. and agree that a new company has no right to it unless the debt was assigned to them. However, that aside the amount is still a debt for use of a service that was taken.

Payment isn't in dispute. Just to whom. As I said, speak with the landowners and see if you can come to some arrangement with them. Tell them it's Xmas and she has some considerable personal commitments at this time of year. They may allow part payment on top of a regular payment from now on.

Fighting the payment on the basis of it not being due isn't anywhere near a winner since it can't be in any doubt.

Ok my gf has just forwarded me an email I hadn't seen from two days ago and now another one they have just sent (all from a Credit Controller at McKibbin)

"The property manager is willing to accept 2 post dated cheques to clear the balance owing on your account. As your standing order mandate was not set up on time for 4th December 12 the balance you now owe is £360.00.

We will need to receive the 2 post dated cheques by the end of this week.

I look forward to hearing from you"

and this one just now:

"Can you let me know when you will be sending the two postdated cheques to clear the balance of £360.00 owing on your account? You can leave them with Chris Newton, the Centre Manager at any time or post them to us. Also, can you confirm that you have posted the Standing Order mandate?

We are meeting with the Landlord of Quayside Shopping centre and need to let them know"

Ask them it they'll accept 3 or 4 PD's instead due to Xmas expenses.
I'd make the payment but to give you a way out I'd also get a receipt for full and final clearance in respect of any previous payments, to themselves and any company they use to manage the parking facility.

If she signed something with the previous management company, her agreement was with them. Get the landlords name and call their offices and get written confirmation that this new outfit has the authority to collect these monies.



This all seems a little rushed to me.

I don't think the change in company is relevant - managing agents collect funds for the estate bank accounts, which are held in a nominee account administered by them. Your g/f owes for the parking to which she agreed, and the estate benefits regardless of the managing agent. Now, for what is clearly their error, around Xmas as well, I agree with others that she should offer the funds in the new year due to Xmas expenses. That is not unreasonable given somebody's error.

HTH

Unfortunately I dont have a copy of what she signed, so I have no idea. As far as I am aware the landowner has not changed...have thought of the last option but sounds like too much hassle, and to be fair she has used the car park so I think she should pay something for it - just not all at once and also not the full amount as they should be able to see there was two whole months she never used it

I'm unclear from the account what the reason is regarding the missing payments

A direct debit that the former company forgot to set up ?
A direct debit was set up but they didn't ask for the money ?
A standing order was set up and her bank didn't make the payments

If she or her bank are in no way responsible, she hasn't breached any contract and is in a much better position to make a reasonable offer regarding a schedule for the payments

She certainly needs to check with her bank if any arrangements exist to pay the old company, and cancel them

If nine months have passed, does this mean that the contract is coming up for renewal ?
If so, she needs to see what the agreement states

As an aside, I can't find an obvious link between the companies, not even an address.
I'm surprised that they're trading names and not "Limited"

My gf and her bank are in no way responsible - it was the previous company's fault they never took any payments. I don't think it was any kind of contract, just on a rolling basis her agreeing to pay £40 a month to park via DD that was never set up properly.

I think your GF mucked up, because the email from the company is asking you to set up a standing order, not a DD. An S/O is originated by the person paying and is in their total control. In effect they instruct the bank to MAKE payments. A D/D on the other hand is an instruction to the bank to allow a third party to TAKE payments. I suspect that the S/O was never set up properly.

That's what I was trying to get clear when the new company mentioned replacing a standing order.
Wonder if that's what old company thought was set up

The direct debit contains instructions to both banks

The instructions to their bank will say "Go and fetch the money"
The instructions to her bank will say "Let them have it when they ask"
It doesn't instruct her bank to send it. That's what a standing order does

Does her bank have a record that the D/D was set up but there were no requests, or does it have no record at all ?
As OKD are no longer involved, anything D/D in their favour needs cancelling

in Sligo ?

Presumably the situation is that you have been getting free parking but as the old company is no more, you have no more right to use the space. The new company is starting from scratch and the deal is you pay what they decide, or have no right to enter the land. Since the deal they're offering you doesn't actually put you out of pocket over the term, you haven't actually lost out. Would have been nice to have had free parking, but I don't think you're going to get away with it. The PD cheques seem like the best compromise.

No the one in Derry

Why not ask for a copy of the original agreement, see if the new company have a leg to stand on.

That's a bit like asking a fireman for proof of his training before you let him douse the fire in your kitchen.

Cheers, I'm going to just to see what it actually says! From what my gf remembers it was pretty much just a form with her name, her work address and her bank details she doesn't recall it being much of an agreement at all

If it had her bank details that would suggest D/D