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Hello, looking for advice on a PCN which was issued to me as follows; Parked on a piece of waste land which has DYL down the roadside (on the left as you look at the picture) however the waste land is on the right - my query is, is this land covered or governed by the yellow lines too?
What I find contradictory is that cars park daily on this piece of land at a right angle to the yellow lines (which you can see in the background in the photo), and I have parked here for several years on a regular basis and never been given a ticket before.
The place where I was parked was paralel to the yellow lines and was not a pavement.
The ticket I was issued was for 'parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours'.
I have already appealled and it has been rejected.
Any advice would be gratefully received as to what I should do next.
Thanks!

That does not appear to be waste land, but a footway to which the public have access.
DYLs & SYLs apply to the carriageway, public footways and public land eg grass verges from the centre line of the carriageway right up to the private property line, so you would have to show the land on which you parked was privately owned. It matters not a jot what other drivers do or don't do. motorists break the rules daily.

Please show us both sides of the PCN. And were you loading or unloading or collecting/delivering anyone or anything?

Hi thanks for your msgs.

Do you know how I would go about establishing if this is private land?
It is not part of the footpath or a grass verge.
And I was not loading or unloading.
Thanks

How about a daylight pic or a Google Streeet View?

Land Registry £4?

The google street view is too old so doesn't show the current situation of the area in question. I will see if I can get some daylight pics and post them on here, thanks.

In your photo, the configuration of the footway doesn't look new - are you referring to the yellow lines when you say that google doesn't show the current situation? If so, these aren't the issue at present (we know they're there because they're in the photo), it's whether where you were parked is considered to be part of the highway. In this respect, whether the land is privately owned is not a determining factor.

So let's see GSV and the PCN.

Hi I've copied the image into a word doc (attached) so am hoping this works.

The reason I say it doesn't show the current situation is that the location in which I was parked is shown on the picture as the entrance to a business which was there however this has now been demolished (hence why I say it is now a peice of waste land). It is on the left hand side as you look down the street where the black metal fencing is.

You can also see why I state it is not part of the footpath>?

Hope this helps.

Thanks again for any help in advance.

SORRY I MEANT ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AS YOU LOOK DOWN THE STREET, OOPS!
THANKS

PCN ATTACHED.
THANKS

We need both sides of the PCN

I would suggest the new black fence (which i thought was a row of garage doors) denotes the private property line, hence you are parked on the public footway, also covered by the DYLs

hay guys
just putting my pennies worth in,
i would say it does not form part of the carriageway, which i assume is what the contravention PCN relates to,
it seems from your Pics that there is some new development going on in that location and it seems that the council just want to keep the area clear now
but i always appeal, so you could ask for them to use some Discretion initially but then substatiate your challenge if thy reject you.

Absolutely.

The reason the fence encloses an area which does not include the area where you subsequently parked is because it would be a criminal offence to do so because it's a public right of way and whoever owns the property has no right to prevent the public exercising their rights over the Queen's highway etc.

On your evidence you are bang to rights.

IMO, you have two choices both of which have today as the last date for taking action:
1. If the PCN states (on the reverse) that if a challenge is submitted within the 14-day discount period the discount will be held, then submit a challenge today, but if the PCN doesn't allow this, then
2. Pay the discount today.

Today, 29th is the last day of the 14-day period because 16th was day 1.

HCA

Hi All,

Thanks for your msgs.

When you say 'bang to rights' do you mean they are in the right or I am?? I'm not sure I understand the wording of your explanation, sorry!

The picture is not a CURRENT picture, the 'works' are not going on, the building and business shown there no longer exist, they have been demolished, hence why I say it is now a piece of waste land.

I have already appealled and it has been rejected.

Does anybody feel I have grounds for further appeal and if so what would they be??

Thanks again for all advice gratefully rec.

When you say 'bang to rights' do you mean they are in the right or I am??

They the Council are in the right hence the request for back of the PCN in case the Council have made a mistake there.

It clearly looks like an old entrance which passed over part of the pavement, this isn't unusual, many businesses have an entrance with dropped kerbs, this doesn't mean the pavement belongs to the business though and it certainly doesn't mean the pavement is classed as wasteland when the business moves on.

As has been said, banged to rights mate.

Of course you can still post up both sides of all correspondence from the council, the experts may find errors which could help you.

Did the council re-offer the discount in their response to your challenge? If so, when does this expire? It is essential that you keep the time limits in mind.

On the face of it you were in the wrong, that's it. It is not waste land, it's a (probably little used) footway, albeit that it's not the same structure as a "pavement". But just as vehicle crossovers which allow residents to drive across the footway are not the same construction as the pavement, so it is here. The only difference is that here it was a business and not a house.

The restriction which applies is the double yellow lines which are 24/7.

HCA